How ‘Get Windows 10’ sets its hooks in Windows 7 and 8.1

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Still no sign of the promised Off switch. InfoWorld Woody on Windows
[See the full post at: How ‘Get Windows 10’ sets its hooks in Windows 7 and 8.1]

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Just in case any of this is helpful info for any reason: I use Win7 Home Premium, and I believe the only version of 3035583 that I’ve ever installed is the one that was part of the March 2015 updates (installed on my PC on April 10). (In an earlier comment to another post, I mistakenly reported that my update history didn’t include *any* version of 3035583.)

I’ve also been using GWX Control Panel since October.

My WindowsSystem32GWX folder only has 2.3 MB of files (including the GWX/Download subfolder), and my Task Scheduler has a Microsoft/Windows/Setup/gwx “folder” (if that’s the right word), but it doesn’t have a Microsoft/Windows/Setup/GWXTriggers folder, and the gwx folder has the four tasks you described, except that instead of refreshgwxconfigandcontent, I’ve got runappraiser (set to run at 8 PM each day).

FWIW, I’ve never seen any kind of Get Windows 10 nag, either in my Notification Area or anywhere else, and that was true before I started using GWX Control Panel.

Finally, since running GWX Control Panel for the first time in October and switching “Is Get Windows 10 app enabled?” and “Are Windows Update OS upgrades enabled?” from Yes to No, I’ve never found either of those settings switched back to Yes.

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Sounds like it’s interference with earlier versions of 3035583. There have been a lot of changes.

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From day one when the first warning came from this site I have avoided 3035583 and several other “updates” like the plague. I was using IE-9 up until last summer when I updated to IE-10 which I still have but don’t use.

So far I have not gotten any nags or anything else pertaining to Win 10 or GWX. I have heard that you’ll be left alone if you don’t have IE-11 on your computer. I’m seriously considering NOT updating to IE-11 if it means that I’d risk getting all this Win 10, GWX crap!

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Great info Woody. Has anyone experimented with removing or disabling the scheduled tasks and deleting the C:WindowsSystem32GWX folder?

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I watched that video by Josh (thanks, Woody) and it was very alarming. Why doesn’t Microsoft and Ed Bott tell the truth instead of sneakily ramming Windows 10 down our throats?

But not to worry; today I downloaded and burned to DVD, Linux Mint KDE 17.3 (Sarah) (just released).

So if the offal hits the ventilator, I start installing Linux.

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@Woody

I hid KB 3035583 the first time it was offered by MS (your recommend). It is still in the Hidden Updates section. I had hidden many of the nag updates when they first were offered and I’ve never seen the Get W10 nag in my notification area or anywhere else. I am currently running the most recent GWX Control Panel and have never seen any of the settings changed and I also get the “You appear to be safe” message.

Somehow, 3055583 has never been installed on my machine and, after reading your article, I checked c:WindowsSystem32 and there is no GWX foder.

I am currently running IE9 and I’m wondering whether 5583 is being installed with the upgrade to IE11. Not having upgraded to IE11, not having 5583 installed (yet) and no evidence of the GWX folder in the Sys32 folder, may actually be a result of not having IE11 on my machine.

Knowing how IE is “integrated” into the operating system it’s possible that IE11 may end up being the ultimate culprit in installing the nagware via 5583. I also know many Windows users are already on IE 11, so their experience has a variable mine doesn’t.
I’d be curious if any of your readers who have NOT yet upgraded to IE11 also do not have the GWX folder in their Sys32 folder. If they don’t, it is anecdotal evidence that we may be looking in the wrong place (security updates) for the source of the nagware rather than the (browser) upgrade.

I may have been just lucky here, I don’t know. But I am assuming my luck will not last forever.

Just thought it might help if I added this info.

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At this point in time, I doubt that I will ever buy another product that has anything to do with Microsoft. Things that turn themselves back on or change your settings to something you do not want are nothing but malware no matter who they are made by. My confidence and trust in Microsoft is long gone.

Trust is hard to get, easy to lose and almost impossible to get back.

If I owned any stock in Microsoft, I would sell it.

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As far as stock goes, Microsoft’s future isn’t with Windows. It’s with Azure and Office, and a handful of additional businesses.

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I’ll write about this tomorrow, but I can say categorically (with a lot of testing from PKCano) that installing IE 11 does NOT install 3035583.

You’re clean because of GWX Control Panel. Without it, you’d have vestiges of GWX all over the place.

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That’s exactly what GWX Control Panel does. It’s a whole lot easier than cleaning up manually.

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See my earlier comment. IE 11 does NOT install 3035583, nor does it make things easier for MS to install it.

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OK, thanks.

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That might be so or not – but if Windows means that little to them, then why are they so desperately trying to enforce it onto people – and at this cost in reputation?

Also you may want to ask whether it is the clever thing to do to support a company (by buying and holding its stocks), that behaves like MS does. A stockholder’s decision here even gets an ethically relevant dimension. Which in principle also is true for anybody considering to buy even “just” a software from Microsoft.

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I renamed the C:WindowsSystem32GWX folder and disabled the FOUR existing Scheduled Tasks when this was first brought to light by somebody here back in November. I’m guessing by uninstalling and continually hiding 3035583 early in its revision cycle would be the reason I only have four Tasks instead of seven, and a folder size of 2.3 meg that only contains 12 files?

BTW… all four of the Tasks here show the same Last Run Result… “The system cannot find the path specified.(0x8007003)” which is obviously due to the GWX folder being renamed. But I also have to mention that the Task named “refreshgwxconfigandcontent” does not exist here, “runappraiser” is listed instead.

Just figured I’d throw this out here in case others also followed the advice provided back in November and are wondering why they’re seeing different things than what’s stated in the articles.

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Good points.

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“…but I can say categorically…that installing IE 11 does NOT install 3035583.”

Fair enough given all your testing.
Can’t figure why 3035583 is still in my list of hidden updates. Can’t figure why it hasn’t been forced installed on my machine as is the case with so many other people.

So let’s rephrase the question, Does IE11 install W10 nagware – Sys32 GWX folder despite not installing 3035583?

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if its ok w woody and allan…

kindly share your expereicne w migrating to linux in this case mint (sarah) if you are happy to do so….

how to tranfer all the ms data to linux?

so far I only reasearch robolinux can do it (with a fee) all easy tranfer – anyone tried it?

Also which linux will you (or any linux user here) recomand to be a comfortable migration over? why?

What else I need to know to make the right choice (ie do I need to learn command and other techie stuff)?

Which linux is the easiest (not necessary the safest since we have a trustworthy upgrade issue here) such as “point click and install” like the MS user expereince?

Yes I know linux is about freedom and each has its only flare and packages… its still new learning to this newbie…

Thank you all for your time and sharing

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Thanks to this forum, I have been successful so far to keeping my windows7 home premium OS free of the GWX nagware. I decided to upgrade IE9 to 11 last week when Defcon 4 was active. I had never even installed the platform upgrade or any of the prerequisite IE11 updates. I went into hidden updates and restored the update for IE11, and, according to another post somewhere on this forum, msft made the update process “slipstreamed” with the platform upgrade and 2 language libraries. So far so good. Here’s the kicker, for me anyway. upon launching IE11 I decided to check, from the gear icon, the ‘about’ IE in the dropdown list. The window that apeared had a checkbox to “automatically install future upgrades” and it WAS checked. Because I was in an administrator account, it allowed me to uncheck it and if I remember correctly also had to consent to UAC to do this. I may have stumbled into this, but I’m glad I did because my user account showed the “auto install” checkbox was unchecked upon first launch of IE11 in it. I suspect that if I had not done that, there would have been GWX problems.
I then proceeded to install the latest .NET 4.5 and of this moment have not seen any repercussions, yet. I ran the GWX Control Panel immediately after, and all was clear.
Thanks to you Woody and Josh for all you do for us who would like to use Windows7 for the lifecycle I ‘purchased’ or ‘leased” as that may be. Hope this helps…

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I don’t think the IE 11 updater will ever pull in GWX. Microsoft may surprise me, but it seems highly unlikely. Remember that Chrome and/or Firefox, if you have them installed, already update themselves by default.

I don’t have any problem with IE 11 updating itself. If it crashes, it won’t bring down your computer — you just switch to Chrome or Firefox, which you should’ve been using all along.

Of course, if MS ever pushes GWX out through an IE 11 update, I’ll scream blue murder and point everybody back to GWX Control Panel.

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Nope. Installing IE 11 does NOT create a GWX folder. Chances are good you got 3035583 some other way – and GWX Control Panel squished it.

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I’ve read that learning a new language is one way to keep you mind sharp. Maybe learning all about the Linux OS will do the same. Even my brother who used to work for MS has installed a version of Linux (Ubuntu I think) on a spare computer so he can get up to speed if the need arises. He has finally realized that today’s MS is not the same one he worked for in the 90’s!

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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I updated GWX Control Panel yesterday and set it to monitor. Do I need it running all the time? Or should I just run it when I do updates?
Thank you. (And thank Ultimate Outsider!)
Morty

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Just as a point of information and for what it’s worth, I’m Win7 Home Premium and just installed IE 11 and in the About box, the “Install new versions automatically” box was *not* checked (by default).

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@nd60

I am not migrating any data over. I don’t know how, and I think that it would be a waste of time. I will start from scratch. I don’t have much data that I really need to keep, and I will print out what I need and re-enter.

Linux is not for everyone, since it is not for absolute newbies. I happen to have UNIX experience from a long time ago. Since then, I have somewhat kept up with Linux. I won’t be going to Linux if I can keep Windows 8.1, but it looks like that will not be possible.

You have to learn new applications in Linux, and often go to the command line to edit configuration files. When I used UNIX, it was all command line, the manuals were very obscure, and some of the applications were weird. But it was, and is, very powerful, if you know how to use it.

Things have changed since then, but Linux is still not for the faint of heart.

In your case, if you can afford it, I would recommend getting a Mac. I have used top-of-the-line Macs in a job I had once. They were easy to use, but I couldn’t afford them. The Mac uses a flavor of UNIX under the hood, wrapped in an easy-to-use GUI.

Perhaps someone else can help you migrate.

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Woody, is it “safe” to DL & Install the “critical” update to IE 10 immediately?

I usually wait to do this with the IE, however since it’s critical, hopefully it’s best to DL & Install this one now?? OS Win 7.

Why in the world did they wait until today to issue this update??

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I wouldn’t do it. There’s no major outbreak of infections.

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That’s good news!

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GWX is re-enabling certain Registry values on a 12-hour cycle. I don’t leave mine on, but I do run it quite frequently.

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@allan

Thankyou for sharing…

UNIX! Thats a word I havent heard for ages…. Ha
I too start w DOS and abit o UNIX then came the new kid MS claiming “point click and install” even grandma can do it…
and here we are…. somewhat out-of-date w the comand of our life (not just win7 or 8)

on refelction its a fun journey but perhaps billy is short of time and want to make his last scratch… ppl often do that, rich or poor, does not matter but it is as if, a remark to ‘god’ – im not dont yet or i cant get you but i’ll get your ‘other’ somehow… anyway if MS survive then perhaps a new blood can come in… tech stuff can flop and dissapear overnight… such are things w life and unicorns. just my ranting 2c

anyhow I will go into Linux… seems to be the new frontier… or back to the future
on my research only robolinux can offer full migration w a fee using win 7/8 via virtualbox
zorin has design to cater win switcher by offer win desktop look…
ubuntu is the decent one with most stuff ready
mint is the talk about new king…
Mac OS is a serious consideration

but the ‘issue’ is we have so much of win-based stuff – software and games and the lot…
those may not survive the migration test…
unless one use the robolinux trick on virtualbox (there are other vbox software)

anyhow i was also thinking, as you wisely have done, is to de-clutter… OUCH!
after all we too have our shelve-life… perhaps this is a spiritual teaching for us to once again re-examine whats a keeper and what to let-go.

thanks again…. be well all

peace,

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Thank you so much Woody! I have the link you posted to download and install the IE 11, so I will try to get that accomplished today. This is the link I have:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/internet-explorer-11-for-windows-7-details.aspx

Hopefully that will ensure that I’m safe if I have the IE 11 installed.

Thank you so much for your help. It is appreciated more than words can ever say!

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@Nd60:

You can ease into your transition to Linux by starting with a dual-boot Windows and Linux system with a shared data partition.

It’s been a while since I checked this, but there are several sites (such as lifehacker.com. makeuseof.com and howtogeek.com) that have published detailed guides of exactly how to configure your computer to do that.

It actually involves 4 partitions as I recall, one for each OS, one for your data, and one shared swap partition.

I have actually tried this myself on an old netbook I used to have to make it more useful to me. There are some rough edges in doing this, but if set up properly, such a system does work remarkably well with a little attention to detail.

The benefit is that you still have access to your Windows and all your data files while you are learning how to use Linux.

I’d suggest visiting/searching any of the sites I mentioned above or just doing a general search on this topic.

But before you make any changes whatsoever, make sure you make a complete image backup of your existing setup in case anything goes wrong.

Hope that’s of some help to you.

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hi woody

sorry about the last post… I think you have decided not to post which is a good thing. It was abit too personal and opinionated. I’ll remember this is a tech site

Thanks again and good work here.

peace,

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Naw, I’m just slow to get it reviewed and posted.

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FOUL FOUL FOUL

I stepped away from my computer for 20 minutes and I come back to a screen that says “Please wait Windows is configuring your computer…”

I had updates set to “Never check for updates” but Microsoft ignored that and installed 18 updates (9 were Security Updates for Windows 7), reinstalled Silverlight (that I had uninstalled long ago) KB3126036, and changed my update setting to “Automatic”.

There are 3 updates that “Failed” to install that I am suspicious of:
KB3110329
KB3121918
KB3121212

Microsoft is asking for a User Revolt with their cavalier attitude.

Sign me an even unhappier camper.

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It’s very unlikely that you got updated without setting something awry.

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At some point one could consider this a CFAA breach. The feds use it pretty seriously to go after much smaller things that everyday people do just because some company doesn’t like what the person did, even if it was allowed by their systems. At this point Windows users are clearly stating that they do not want Windows 10 or any of its bloatware, and yet this is a constant malicious attempt to push it anyways. That far more clearly falls under the unauthorized access provisions of the CFAA.

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One must consider the scenario that maybe they do not do this voluntarily, but obey somebody who has legal superiority over them.

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Entirely possible. Likely, in fact.

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Huh?

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@woody and all

thank you all for sharing your linux tips

@woody if you still want to remove that post pls feel free to do so… strictly speaking its not MS related (but MS alternative) so it may not hv qualified on this site…

anyhow… prob been reading abit more of “life after death” books so the hard-to-control-monkey-mind just went there… HA

its hard to think of its possibility now with the ppl in the west, but as the world scenery changes, perhaps the next big thing will come from the east…. who knows?! Im actually using a number of chinese software that comes w eng translation-build.

Be well and peace all,

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Over the years I’ve come across many, many people who claim that Windows updated their computers while they had Windows Update set to “Notify but don’t download” or “Don’t check.”

In every case, in fact, Windows Update had been changed to “Download” or “Install.”

The person who got sideswiped didn’t realize they had changed the setting – or in rare cases, installing another program changed the setting for them. But I’ve never seen Windows Update go rogue.

Could it happen? Sure. But it’s very unlikely.

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Unlike Windows, which ignores any Linux installation and in fact will not even show a drive letter for the partition, Linux reads and writes NTFS, FAT, FAT32 and other Microsoft partitions like a native.

You could just install Mint or any other Ubuntu derivative, or even jump to the wild side and go with an unrelated Linux distro, and still have access to all your Windows data without touching a thing.

You’ll be amazed at how good Linux is right now. One very attractive version if you’re migrating from Windows is Elementary OS, yet another Ubuntu derivative like Mint. The advantage is the huge Ubuntu repository of software.

Games? Steam also is on the warpath against Windows and pushing Windows versions of many late model games. I play Borderlands 2 and Kerbal Space Program on Ubuntu and they are indistinguishable from Windows. I have Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific running under WINE and it thinks it’s in Windows. Runs great.

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Perhaps Apple has secretly bought controlling interest in Microsoft with the aim of taking them down? It would answer a lot of questions about why a leading corporation would continually make moves to generate maximum hate and resentment of its customer base.

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@Ryan

Please excuse me. but what is CFAA?
I assume that it is some American regulation or body, but I am Canadian.

Thanks.

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P.S. Check out windowsupdate.log

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Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but my OCD has me daily checking my update settings are set to “Never check for updates (not recommended)” and every day I get the annoying taskbar icon telling me to check my update settings.

I am really surprised at the responses that blame me (operator error). Sure you get a lot of uninformed users complaining on here and other forums, but I have been around since before the PC and have been (before I retired) responsible for over a thousand PCs and Macs in an engineering environment.

BTW, this computer is an Acer Aspire 5740-6378 that has failed every attempt at a Win 10 update, failing in every way that it can. Micro$oft and Acer have no explanation why. Even has failed after a clean install of Windows 7 Pro. (I have upgraded many many desktops, laptops, and tablets to Win 10 so this is not my first rodeo.) And yes I am familiar with GWX Control Panel. /rant off/

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Is your machine on an Active Directory domain? See Woody’s first blog post from this morning about that, and if my experience in my comment there sounds familiar at all.

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Thanks

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Very, very weird.

Can you send me a copy of your windowsupdate.log? It usually has the answer… woody@askwoody.com

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@Ryan, CFAA stands for the “Computer Fraud and Abuse Act” which is a law passed by the US Congress in 1986 to strengthen and amplify computer crime sanctions which were in the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984. The law generally prohibits certain acts, such as unauthorized access, to any computer used by a financial institution, the US Government and computers used in interstate commerce. Inasmuch as internet communication crosses state lines, virtually any computer used with an internet connection has a nexus to interstate commerce and would be covered by CFAA. Whether MS’s tactics regarding pushed upgrades of Win 10 could be construed to be in violation of CFAA depends on the interpretation of many weasel words. However, I do believe there is a possibility that what MS is doing may be entering into a “grey zone” where some enterprising legal scholar could concoct a theory that they are performing unauthorized actions that may affect the performance and mission of affected systems. Hope this helps.

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@Eric, did you recently do the upgrade to IE11? I just posted a response in a different thread here having to do with the defaults that would be set the first time you start IE11 following the upgrade. It didn’t happen to every one of the PCs that I updated over the past week, but on some of them, the first screen that appeared when I started IE11 asked if I wanted IE to run with its default settings. I chose to select my own settings and that brought up a screen that gave me three items to set. One of them was setting Windows Update to Automatic. In other words, if I had allowed IE to take its defaults, IT WOULD HAVE CHANGED MY WIN UPDATE SETTING FROM NEVER TO AUTOMATIC!! Caveat Microsoft!

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Very good point.

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Thanks. It seems like it doesn’t help the rank and file. Perhaps the US government will act.
I know that Germany is suing Microsoft for forced upgrades.

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Yes. It is what the feds were starting to use to go after Aaron Swartz even when he did have legal access to a system. It looks like your response largely answered Allan’s question. I will just add that our federal government here has stretched the CFAA quite far to go after people for anything that any company doesn’t like under their interpretation of “exceeds authorized access” which is their favorite clause it seems (at least as far as I hear about).

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I appreciate St3333ve’s report about what is showing up on his/her computer, because our circumstances with 3035583 sound similar:
I installed 3035583 initially – in the halcyon days of my blind trust in MS – when that update first came out. A few months afterwards, when I learned about how problematic all this stuff had become, I uninstalled it.

However, my computer does not seem to have the GWX folders that St3333ve’s has, and I am wondering if I am not looking in the right spots.
(My folder view options page has “show hidden files, folders, and drives” selected, and “hide protected operating system files” is UNchecked.)

I have looked at my CWindowsSystem32, and there is no GWX folder.
I did a search of the System32 folder for instances of “GWX”, and only one instance came up (which is described below).
I then did a search of the whole C drive, and the same single instance came up.
That instance is this:
Microsoft-Windows-GWX-Ins%4Operational.evtx
which is an “event log” in Cwindowssystem32winevt. (I don’t know what that is/means, but I’m sure most of you folks do.)

My Task Scheduler _does_ have a folder named Microsoft/Windows/Setup/GWX but it is blank and it says “0 tasks” when it is clicked on.

Am I not looking in the correct way for GWX folders that might be on my computer?

[General info:
I have Windows 7.
I have not installed the GWX Control Panel program – I haven’t seen a need for it on my system (so far) because I have avoided or uninstalled the apparently-dodgy patches since the middle of last year.]

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I’ve read St3333ve’s comment again, and although I had originally assumed he/she had uninstalled 3035583, now I am not sure that he/she has.
If it’s still on his/her computer, that would, of course, account for the different folders we are seeing, and I would withdraw my above questions!

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IE installation, even before IE11, has had the “option Box” with “Use default settings” and “Keep Current Settings” (or something similar) on first run. And maybe Microsoft Office (before 2016 – I haven’t installed it) and maybe changing from Windows Update to Microsoft Update. ALWAYS use the option that gives you the choice, not MS’s default.

The same goes for installing ANY software. ALWAYS choose the “Custom” install over the “Express” install so you can see (some of) what you are getting and opt out. If you install Win10 using the Express Install (recommended, of course) instead of Custom, you get all the privacy settings wide open by default.

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Hi Woody,

I have a question about available types of “views” of your blog posts’ comments areas.

The way they are at present, with a nested view only, works well during the first couple of days of a blog post’s life, because most viewers will be reading along (and commenting) “in real time” and in the order in which the discussion is initially formed/created.

After the first couple of days, though, the more avid followers of your blog, who might return to a comments area of a post that interested them to see if any new comments have been left, for expediency’s sake will just glance at the bottom of that post’s comments section, while new replies to and/or extensions of prior comments — which are “nested” — are sitting tucked away in the older, upper part of the thread and don’t get many views.

Therefore, if one wants to return to a comments area of a prior blog post and read the newer comments that one has not seen before, particularly the new nested replies, one has to scroll down through the whole comments section again to pick out the newer entries, which is kind of a chore when there are more than a couple dozen comments there.

Your list of the 10 most recent comments in the right-hand column of your site template is handy, and it goes some way towards solving my issue,
but I don’t visit your site enough to always be caught up on all the comments except for the newest 10. (I expect there are at least 50 to 100 new comments which are left under various blog posts between my site visits.)

Would there be another way, an alternative optional view that you could provide on each blog post’s comments section (perhaps with a toggle/button), to let interested readers sort the comments under each blog post by time&date only, to “un-nest” them so to speak, so they could catch up with the last few that have been left, no matter where they were inserted? I know this would present “reply”-comments out of their original context, but if the reader saw a new reply-comment that was so interesting that she/he wanted to see it within its original nested place, maybe there could be a link on each comment that allowed one to flip the view so it could be seen in its ordinary place in the normal, nested view.

I expect that you already know what I’m getting at in this long-winded explanation, but if I’ve not been clear, an example of what I’m talking about is how the Guardian’s website does it —

In their comments areas of articles, the reader is given the following choices:

A. order
A1. newest
A2. oldest
A3. recommended

B. threads
B1. collapsed
B2. expanded
B3. unthreaded *this is what I am getting at

The “B3” option is the one that allows the reader to see comments in strict date/time order, and I think it would be useful for your readers to have this as an optional way to view the comments left on your blog.

Here is a quick link to an example of a Guardian article which has a comments section (not all of their articles allow for comments to be left) and which gives the reader those 6 choices in how the comments are arranged: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/18/phishing-attack-steal-lastpass-password-manager-details

—
This is nothing urgent or important, obviously!

I don’t know how other visitors who are interested enough to read the comments left on your blog would feel about this – maybe most do not return to your blog posts’ comments areas after reading them an initial time.

If I didn’t find so many of the reader comments that are left about your blog posts helpful/interesting to read, I wouldn’t bother wanting to make sure I’d caught them all!

Thank you.

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Appreciate your comment!

Unfortunately, I’m very limited in my options on the admin side. Basically, I can either nest the comments, or un-nest them (chronological). I had a lot of people request nested comments, because in chronological order, one had to specify which comment was being replied to.

The list on the right of the main page is automatically generated.

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Woody, I share D’s pain. I had thought to make the very same suggestion (but couldn’t figure out how to word it — and it certainly would not have been worded as clearly as D’s post). But given your response, I will offer this workaround to help D and anyone else trying to keep up with replies/comments here.

Use your browser’s search/find capability on the earliest date of posts you are interested in. So, for example, if I had last looked at posts on January 17, I’d do a search on “January 18” to find any newer posts. Of course, I might have to run through with more dates and repeat the process a few times, but, hey, anything that works.

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