How one totally replaces Windows 7 with Linux on a PC?

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My almost 8 year-old Windows 7  PC looks like it, probably, has reached the end of its life, at least as a Windows machine. If I am right in this assessment, then the question for me is what to do with it. The hardware, I believe, is OK. The problem is that the software has given out: it lost my profile, and nothing I have been trying seems to get things back to normal — and to “useful.”

So I am considering scraping Windows and replacing it with Linux Mint. My question is, given the state of the PC as I have described also here  #336010 in detail (as far as I am able to figure out what it is), is it even possible to do this?

And if it is possible, what would be the best way to do this?

Please, let me know where I can find information on this issue and, if necessary, let me explain any details that you might see as important to know before giving advice.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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The Linux Mint installer will happily obliterate* any existing operation system, all you need to do is follow the prompts.

https://linuxmint.com/documentation.php

I know you have seen the cliche, Back up all your current work, pictures, etc. before proceeding…

*After reading your other post, if Mint recognizes all of your hardware you might also become happy.

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Thanks, anonymous.

One question: in the manual it says: “Restart the computer and press F1, F2, Delete, or Escape (or whatever key lets you enter the BIOS configuration)   ”

But my PC is from 2011, it has an I-7, quad core sandy bridge CPU and not a BIOS, but an UEFI. Does this make any difference to the above procedure?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I have an Ivy Bridge mobo from circa 2012, and I’m running with UEFI. Pressing the “Delete” key usually gets me into the UEFI-BIOS setup during POST.

What is UEFI, and How is It Different from BIOS?

https://www.howtogeek.com/56958/HTG-EXPLAINS-HOW-UEFI-WILL-REPLACE-THE-BIOS/

How to Boot Your Computer from a Disc or USB Drive

https://www.howtogeek.com/129815/beginner-geek-how-to-change-the-boot-order-in-your-computers-bios/

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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If you don’t want a dual boot, i. e., don’t care at all about Win7 and don’t mind if ALL Win 7 data (including the OS itself) is wiped out, then you’ll have a pretty easy time of it.

Most of what you need to do has already been discussed in the Linux forums here at askWoody. Also, the installation guide for Mint describes how to install Mint on a hard drive, and there are some very good articles on the howtogeek website.

Basically what you need to do is get what’s called an ISO image on a flash drive (the Mint install manual and a couple articles on howtogeek describe how to do this). Then figure out how to get your computer to boot from the flash drive in a usb port. I would go to the HP website (I recall your computer as being an HP) for how to do that. You’ll have to get into a boot menu or the BIOS in order to do that, but the HP support pages should tell you how to do that for your machine. Then boot from the flash drive and follow the instructions. You’ll probably see options you don’t understand (I certainly did), but you don’t need to understand them for a basic (yet still fully functional) install.

Like most things that are new, the process may seem intimidating, but it’s not so bad. You’ll probably make a few mistakes along the way, but the good thing is that if you do, you just take a step or two backwards and redo something and then keep going. As long as you’ve got copies of your important Win 7 stuff saved somewhere, you won’t hurt/wreck anything.

I haven’t installed Mint, but I have installed Ubuntu on a few machines. I believe Mint is more user friendly than Ubuntu so it probably won’t take you the 1 to 2 days it took me on my first attempt.

Finally, since your hard drive is 7 years old I’d first run some diagnostics on it to make certain it’s in good shape. Given the age, you might want to replace the hard drive, even if you have to take it to a shop to do it.

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OscarCP

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DrBonzo, Thank you, you always have some really good practical ideas and advice.

I run today a scan with CHKDSK using a service installed by HP when they sold me the PC, and it did not show any problems.

One thing though: I am not sure I can create the disk with the Mint system downloaded from the Internet using the Windows PC, because of its problems. I have the Mac, but I don’t know if it it possible to create the install DVD in the Mac and then use this DVD to install Mint in the PC.

Alternatively, if I buy the Mint disk (I imagine they sell those), would that be enough to install Mint, after I have persuaded the PC to boot from a DVD, that is?

Also, there is a choice between Cinnamon and other GUIs. Which one is the one you would recommend?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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You used to be able to purchase Ubuntu flash drives and DVD/CD so I’m assuming you could get one from Mint. It should work just fine although you probably won’t get the very latest version or build of Mint (meaning after the install you may need/want to update, but that shouldn’t be any problem).

The choice of GUI is highly personal. I personally like the look of Cinnamon, but you may not. Some GUI are more system intensive than others, but in your case with an i7 processor I wouldn’t think that’s something you need to worry about. My 10 year old HP laptop crawled under Vista but just flies under Ubuntu.

If you can do basic stuff on your HP (can you see the hard drive icon or a flash drive, do any copy/paste, access the internet, stuff like that), you ought to be able to make the Mint disk/flash drive. I’ve never tried to make one on a Mac, but I think it should be doable (probably just make sure the Mac is using FAT32 or NTSF file protocols on the flash drive so that the PC can read it?). The simplest thing might be to use a friend’s or relative’s working Windows PC.

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OscarCP

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Thanks again, I’ll have to find out  how to get things out of the machine and into a external mass storage device. It might mean trying a few times doing this and that until, either I get it right, or I just give up and reformat the disk, or maybe even follow your other advice and give the PC a hard disk transplant. And making the install disk with someone else’s PC is an idea I really can use, if  can’t do it with the ailing PC.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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@oscarcp, is the disk drive in the troubled PC the original drive that came with the computer? If it is, then rather than wiping the drive to put Linux on it, I would suggest getting a whole new replacement drive to put Linux on it. (On second reading, I see that @drbonzo has already suggested doing this.)

This would have certain advantages compared to overwriting the old HDD. For one, the drive may be approaching its useful end anyway and this will save you the trouble of replacing an extant Linux system: you’ll be starting fresh. And for another, this way you still keep the option of going back to the Windows 7 HDD if you should need it for any reason.

A third reason is that you could take this opportunity to make the new drive a solid-state drive instead of your current, presumably mechanical hard drive. Other than installing additional RAM, using an SSD is the best thing one can do to make a computer feel faster and snappier.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Bill C., OscarCP

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Thanks Cybertooth. I remember running jobs from an external HD and even from a flash drive that one day gave up the ghost, suddenly, and took some stuff I was doing at the time to its grave.

Maybe I could do that here, without having to remove the one with Windows first, so I am still being able to get out something saved on it? Using an external mass storage as HD did work with Windows, so I wonder if it might also work when Linux is the OS in charge of the machine.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I have both a Desktop and a Notebook with Linux Mint, started with Version 13 and now on 19.1.  I usually boot to the LiveDVD and from that can install or [using a program included named USB Image Writer] create a bootable USB Thumb drive [use 16GB Verbatim] which can also be used to install from when running.  Linux Mint includes 4 programs I use, Firefox browser [default], LibreOffice, VLC and GPARTED.  With a drive dock attached I can wipe a drive clean using GPARTED [which also is available separately as a bootable CD].

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OscarCP

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Hello Oscar! We have conversed in the past. Oscar, I have made my feelings known about the “lack of faith” I have in linux and have friends the eat, sleep and breathe linux.

I do have a friend with MINT and has used it for over a decade maybe 15 years. It seems a good option.

I hope Acaris joins in here to help you. Ascaris and I have had a good, polite conversation about linux and I feel his input would be valuable to you.

See: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/patch-lady-windows-7-documentation-is-showing-its-age/#post-312573

I still feel you need to make someone your friend that has linux so to have a person for reference and advice.

ASKWOODY is a good forum and has VERY good people inputting.

Good luck Oscar. Keep us posted.

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OscarCP

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Anonymous that knows me from before: that was a really good exchange between you and Ascaris.

The three main reasons I am going to install Linux in place of Windows 7 are that: (1) I cannot install macOS in it and, besides, I already have a Mac; (2) In the world, there have to be other operating systems besides Linux, macOS and Windows, but nothing that one can use with confidence in that will have a PC version, enough knowledgeable people using it, good and varied application software, and enough compatible peripherals. (3) In less than one year Windows 7 will be out of support and compatible applications and their updates will be harder and harder to get as time goes by, as will peripherals such as printers. Say I keep Windows 7 and the printer I have now; one day this printer breaks down for good and there are no printers for Windows 7 anymore. One of the big practical problems with Linux used to be the lack of peripherals that were compatible with it or had drivers available also for Linux. Now it will be the same process, only running in reverse, for Windows 7.

So replacing Windows 7 with Linux in this old PC, to give it an extended lease of life, is a no-brainer for me. (Yes, I could install Windows 8.1, but by this point I already have had more than I ever bargained for of Windows, MS , Nadella and the rest of the band.) And, in last analysis, the then Windows, now Linux PC will be secondary to the Mac, so if it is not tremendously versatile because of some limitations in its setup, hardware, or software, that won’t matter too much.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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What I would do is just pop out the existing HDD, install a new one (maybe even a SSD), and install Linux on that as the new system drive.

Then after the install, just pop the old drive back in as a secondary internal HDD (it will be readable from Linux), so that all of your old docs will be there to copy, back up, etc. Alternatively you could install that original system HDD into an external USB dock for access to your old files.

An important consideration here is that if you want to avoid overwriting that original drive, make sure that you disconnect it before installing Linux to a new drive. Linux doesn’t use drive letters the same way as Windows does, so it would be easy to install Linux on the wrong hard drive.

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Bill C., OscarCP, Cybertooth

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JohnW wrote:

What I would do is just pop out the existing HDD, install a new one (maybe even a SSD), and install Linux on that as the new system drive. .

This option has several advantages.  It would allow you to copy any files that still exist on the original disk.   You could attempt to repair the Windows 7 instillation at your leisure.  If repair is successful, you will have saved any paid for software and can add the option to boot to either OS.  Also, it is possible the problems are caused by a failing HHD.

Mark

Win 11 home - 24H2
Attitude is a choice...Choose wisely

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The internal, onboard setup utility in modern PCs has been called “BIOS” for so long that now the term is often used generically, even if the system uses UEFI.  The blurb about the BIOS goes on to mention making sure secure boot is off, and that’s only available in UEFI.  That’s the problem with “dumbing it down” to the commonly used, but incorrect, term.  People who know the correct term may not interpret the misused term as the authors intended.

Even if the PC is older and uses actual BIOS, calling the setup program “BIOS,” as the author of the manual has, isn’t accurate either.  “BIOS setup” would be a much better term, but people like to abbreviate things, and “setup” is too generic… it could be so many things!

The most common context for people seeing the word “BIOS” was “BIOS setup,” so “BIOS” seems to fit.  In the phrase “BIOS setup,” it’s “setup” that is the noun, as a type of program. “BIOS,” in this context, is an adjective.  It describes what kind of “setup” we’re talking about.  Back in the day, we used to also refer to it as “CMOS setup,” as the setup program was stored on CMOS chips.

But enough with the semantics of the term.

Installing Mint over Windows will be relatively simple.  The installer will guide you through the procedure, and if your intent is to obliterate the partition(s) and their data anyway, you don’t have to worry about inadvertently messing it up.  One of the options in the installer is, if I remember, to replace the existing OS, so picking that one would accomplish the task.

Desktops are a matter of personal choice.  Cinnamon is easily my favorite edition of Mint, but you won’t know if it’s yours until you try it.  You can get a general idea of a desktop environment from a live session, but IMO you can’t really get a feel for it unless you use it and live with it a while.  You’ll know if you like it or if you want to try another desktop environment at that point.

 

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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OscarCP

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Ascaris, thanks for your comments. I still would like to know this, if you don’t mind:

How does one go about accessing the UEFI (my PC has UEFI not BIOS) and setting things up there? I have been told that the only way to find out about this is to ask the PC manufacturer (that would be HP, in my case).

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I’m not Ascaris, but I didn’t mean to imply that the only way to find out how to access the BIOS/UEFI is from HP. If you ‘google’ your question you’ll find many sites that tell you how to do it. Most sites I’ve seen will say something like ‘press the power on button and immediately start pressing the F10 key (or some other F key) repeatedly (or hold down for 5 seconds)’, etc. In other words they will be somewhat general directions. My thought is that by going straight to HP Support on the web, you’re more likely to get directions specific to your computer model thereby taking some of the trial and error out of it.

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OscarCP

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OscarCP wrote:

Thanks Cybertooth. I remember running jobs from an external HD and even from a flash drive that one day gave up the ghost, suddenly, and took some stuff I was doing at the time to its grave.

Maybe I could do that here, without having to remove the one with Windows first, so I am still being able to get out something saved on it? Using an external mass storage as HD did work with Windows, so I wonder if it might also work when Linux is the OS in charge of the machine.

If you want to copy data off the Windows 7 HDD, then with Windows running you can copy it to an external disk or to a flash drive. And yes, you should be able to copy the data even with Linux running (see my next paragraph).

Alternatively, you can copy the desired data off the Windows HDD after removing it, by installing Linux on a brand-new drive, putting that one in the PC, and then re-attaching the old Windows disk, for example via an external connection (make sure to get a kit that includes a power adapter).

Another way to do it would be to run a Linux live CD/USB, then use its file manager to navigate to the Windows drive (still inside the PC case) and copy your data to a flash drive or external disk.

There are many ways to get to Rome. 

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Lars220, OscarCP

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Cybertooth wrote:

Alternatively, you can copy the desired data off the Windows HDD after removing it, by installing Linux on a brand-new drive, putting that one in the PC, and then re-attaching the old Windows disk, for example via an external connection (make sure to get a kit that includes a power adapter).

Another way to do it would be to run a Linux live CD/USB, then use its file manager to navigate to the Windows drive (still inside the PC case) and copy your data to a flash drive or external disk.

Yes, this is one good way to do things. However be aware, if you happen to have disk encryption active, especially if it’s an uncommon kind, these may not be feasible.

BitLocker can be opened in Linux if you have the recovery key but it takes extra work, same with VeraCrypt. But, manufacturer-specific proprietary encryption methods may not be compatible, same with BitLocker with nonstandard key management, not to mention other third-party software products – I haven’t tested if for example the “HP Drive Encryption”, that was included with some HP models with Windows 7 Pro, can be opened from Linux.

That said, accessing even a messed-up Windows disk from Linux tends to work very well if it isn’t encrypted…

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Lars220, OscarCP, Cybertooth

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Oscar, before you do anything may I suggest you look up Youtube videos on linux? There is a good channel called Don’t Call Me Lenny, and you can go from there. Do some solid viewing and get a good feel for it. Maybe you can take your pc to a techshop and sort out any problems with the Win 7 on it – there’s no rush, you have a while before it goes EOL – have you considered for example that you might want to run Win 7 as a virtual machine when you are on Linux, and if you have your Windows sorted out, you should be able to install an image of it in Virtualbox later on and it should activate,

The techs should be able to clone it for you also. If you rush in, you could cause your pc some damage and be unhappy. Lots of viewing will give you a good idea and feel, and put you in the right direction for some reading also. Hope you don’t mind this perspective. There is some learning curve, and visual learning is especially helpful.

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johnf, OscarCP

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Elly has recommended doing this to revive the PC, in a separate thread ( #336379 ), as an alternative to getting rid of Windows 7 altogether (although, even if I can keep a revived Windows 7, I’ll still install Linux for its use as the main OS, maybe in a separate new disk, as several have advised me to do here)

Anyone has an opinion on the free application mentioned in the article she sent me a link to? (The article is placed towards the end of the document.) It is written by someone I imagine to be a reputable source.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

How does one go about accessing the UEFI (my PC has UEFI not BIOS) and setting things up there? I have been told that the only way to find out about this is to ask the PC manufacturer (that would be HP, in my case).

Hi OscarCP, try visiting this HP website for some information, and can you tell us what your computer is, you told us this:

HP PCs and Tablets – About UEFI and the Startup Menu
https://support.hp.com/hk-en/document/c03801890

OscarCP wrote:

my PC is from 2011, it has an I-7, quad core sandy bridge CPU and not a BIOS, but an UEFI.

Maybe sharing model name, number, id can help? The HP website may have some more useful links if you check around. Just for info, I use Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon DE Desktop Environment, and am fairly new to it, but like it alot, also Windows 7, so I hope you can save / salvage your Win7 computer, at least save the Hard Disk Drive for future salvage. I would put Linux Mint on a new drive, if this one is from 2011.

Amazing Truths Revealed: Link to Simply Magnificent AskWoody Knowledge Bases

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OscarCP, DrBonzo

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Lars220:

Thank you so very much for that link!!!

To be clear: THANK YOU!!!

I clicked on the link and then followed the instructions in the HP Web page that action took me to, and had no problems logging in to the HP Utilities menu, where one the items is the access to the UEFI/BIOS setups. Once there I found that the UEFI is set to boot from either its HDD, or from a DVD on its optical drive (this PC is ca. 2011, so it has one!), or from a DVD on an external optical drive with USB connection (I do have one of those!), or from an USB drive (I do have that too!)

So, as far as setting the boot options in the UEFI is concerned, things now look like they are all set to go!

As far as more info on the PC, besides that it is an HP Pavilion dv6 Notebook PC, Model LM720Av, with 8 GB RAM and 700 GB of HD, of which 300 GB are free, the rest being taken up by the OS, restore partition, a large HD partition and assorted junk, plus my data which is a small faction of all that. There is only a serial number given in the System/devices folder, but nothing as to whether it is ATA, SATA, IDE or EIDE. Also something about the graphics chipset being Intel’s, although I have memories of seeing Nvidia drivers mentioned when updating things for this and that, maybe as recently as three years ago (so memory is vague at that point).

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Cybertooth, Lars220

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There is only a serial number given in the System/devices folder, but nothing as to whether it is ATA, SATA, IDE or EIDE.

Given that it’s a 2011 model, dollars to doughnuts it’s SATA connections for the internal hard disk and the internal optical drive. The other types had been out of fashion for years at that point.

Regarding the graphics, you will have Nvidia drivers only if there is (or used to be) an Nvidia graphics card inside the PC, otherwise the graphics drivers will match the manufacturer of the CPU (Intel or AMD). You can easily determine that by going into Device Manager and checking the listings under “Display adapters”.

You can also go into Device Manager to check the type of connection; look under “IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers”. Here’s what mine looks like:

For good measure, I’m also pointing to the graphics drivers. (It came with Intel graphics built in but also a discrete AMD graphics card installed.)

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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OscarCP

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Thanks, Cybertooth. Earlier on, I did try to get to the Device Manger, but somehow did not make it. Maybe that is because of the reduced capabilities of my blessed “temporary profile.” But maybe there are other ways I have not tried yet to get there, so I’ll give it another go.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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@OscarCP I’m not sure whether you’re aware of the following, but in case you’re not, know that while your computer may be set to boot from the HDD, optical disc in a DVD/CD drive, optical disc in a usb optical drive, or usb drive, these options are usually prioritized. There should be an indication of the priority for each method. It would not surprise me at all if the priorities for the 4 methods you listed are 1, 2, 3, and 4, respectively. BUT, if you want to boot from a usb flash drive, you’ll need to set that priority to 1. This means the computer will look for bootable media on the usb flash drive first and if it finds such media will proceed to boot from it. If it doesn’t find such media, then it will proceed to the priority 2 item and see if there is bootable media. Again, if there is it will boot from there, but if not it proceeds to priority 3 and repeats the process.

The HP utility you used to see your BIOS/UEFI should also allow you to edit the BIOS/UEFI, which in your case means you will be able to reset the priorities if needed. You want to be careful when you edit; it won’t be that big a deal if you make a mistake in editing the priorities since you’ll be able to go back in and reedit if necessary, but you do want to focus on what you’re doing.

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Cybertooth

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Oscar:

I suggest that you get a new hard drive, or better, a solid state drive, and install Linux Mint on the new drive. There are two benefits to doing this:

1. New drive means that you are setting the hard drive failure clock back to zero. It will be that much longer before there is a hard drive failure.

2. By going with a new drive, you can easily get back to Windows 7 if you choose to, simply by reinstalling the old drive.

As for how to install Mint, I believe the easiest way would be to download one of the Mint ISO files, then put a blank DVD in the drive, right click on the ISO file, and tell it to create a DVD from the ISO. Once that process is done, simply reboot to the DVD drive. Or, shut down the computer, swap hard drives to the new one you bought, then power on, booting to the DVD drive.

Creating a Mint DVD will be less complicated than creating a Mint flash drive.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

4 users thanked author for this post.

Cybertooth, Bill C., OscarCP, Lars220

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MrJimPhelps,

Thank you for your comment. Your advice and Lars220’s just before yours, along with the information provided by several helpful people here and in my “PC lost my profile” thread started a bit earlier, some two days ago, I think have given me sufficient pointers to attempt replacing Windows with Linux while extending the PC’s useful life for some years to come — with any luck — as it seems to be in robust enough health for that to happen. And putting a new HD, as you and others have advised (while using the old one as an external HD, with a suitable USB connector), looks like a prudent thing to do. Last year I replaced the battery, so it should keep going for several more years on that respect as well. I might also replace the keyboard, that already has one sticky key, the “down arrow” key; there is another “down arrow” key in the data entry section of the keyboard (so this is not a real problem, so far, but,,, )

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I use an external USB keyboard whenever I can with my laptop, for a few reasons:

1. I find it easier to type on an external keyboard (especially an IBM “clicky” keyboard) than on the built-in keyboard.

2. If you use an external keyboard whenever possible (e.g. while working at your desk), you will put less wear and tear on the built-in keyboard.

3. If your built-in keyboard has any problems, an external USB keyboard is a cheap and easy workaround.

If you are lucky enough to find one of the Belkin USB folding keyboards (they no longer make them), that is an excellent external keyboard to keep in your laptop case for use wherever you go. I prefer USB to Bluetooth, because you don’t need a battery in the keyboard.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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OscarCP

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Not just using an external keyboard to take care of sticky keys, or for the feel of it: I also prefer a regular mouse to the particular trackpad of my Windows laptop, because it has a super sensitive driver that, when typing, senses the slight vibrations one makes when hitting the keys and causes the writing cursor to jump, and very often at that, from where the next character to be typed is supposed to be to right next to the pointer cursor, the one shaped like an arrowhead, wherever that might be. I have tried damping down its sensitivity, but to no avail.

The reason I haven’t used often enough my external keyboard and mouse is plain and simple impatience to get on right away with whatever I have in mind to do.

Probably when I install Linux Mint to replace Windows 7, I will either find a better driver for it, or the trackpad won’t be usable any longer. In the latter case, I’ll be forced to use the external mouse and, either way, I’ll be freed at last from this long-running nuisance.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I have one more question:

If I replaced the old HD on the PC with a brand-new, blank one, where I will be installing Linux… the UEFI would still work, right? Because, if the old disk goes, the HP tools that include the one to get to the UEFI setup would be gone with the old disk. So the UEFI, right now setup to boot from DVD or flash drive on startup, if they are present, will still be OK for doing that, although there is nothing on the HD at the time?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Bill C.

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@oscarcp, you have it right: the UEFI is firmware written onto the computer’s motherboard, so yes, you should be able to reach it no matter what boot drive you have connected to the computer… or even if there is no boot drive at all of any kind. That, at least, is the way that every computer I’ve ever had is set up: the BIOS (or, nowadays, the UEFI) exists independently of the presence of a hard drive, floppy drive, flash drive, or optical drive.

You would be installing Linux from the live CD or live USB that you would have created beforehand. The new, blank hard drive would be in place to receive Linux as the OS installation process continues.

When I got my most recent PC (another HP machine), I took out the included HDD and connected an empty SSD instead. I then took a Linux live CD that I’d created ahead of time, slid it into the optical drive, rebooted, and installed Kubuntu on the SSD. I can get into the UEFI whether or not any drives are connected. You, too, should be fine.

Let us know if you run into any glitches; we’ll be around to help if needed.  

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Kirsty

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Cybertooth, Your direct experience with another HP is very relevant here.

One question about something that you wrote: ” I can get into the UEFI whether or not any drives are connected. ” Is there some place with instructions on how to do that? Also, from Linux, once installed, is there a standard way to get, maybe through the line command (“Terminal”) to the UEFI and, if necessary, update it or do some other necessary tasks (that I hope won’t be necessary — I have never had to do any of that in more than 30 years working with PCs of some kind or another and really hope to keep on surpassing this record.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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On all of my recent PCs, getting into the UEFI system setup requires pressing F2 during POST.  You can do that without any boot device being present.  On my Sandy Bridge desktop PC with an Asus motherboard, it’s the Delete key during POST.  If these don’t work, and there’s no on-screen hint, you’d have to look in the owner’s manual for your PC.  If you don’t have it, very often you can find the manual online in PDF form.

You can also get into it after Linux is installed by using the GRUB option to go to the system setup, if there is one (there is on all of my UEFI PCs).

Updating the firmware differs from machine to machine.  On many of them, you can do that from the UEFI system setup.  My Acer Swift doesn’t have that ability, and its updates come in .exe form, which suggests Windows.  For those, I’ve used a DOS bootable USB drive, then run the executable from there.  It worked just fine without Windows!

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Cybertooth

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I believe that some of the confusion about the procedure for accessing UEFI or BIOS can be chalked up to many manufacturers including pre-boot “startup”, or “recovery menus” on the hard drive.

These menus most likely reside on a partition of the hard drive, and are placed there to make a “simple” procedure for accessing OS recovery tools, diagnostics, etc.

But with a blank hard drive, or all hard drives disconnected, such menus are not available as they are not actually part of the physical UEFI or BIOS chip on the motherboard.

In that case, just finding the active “hot key” (may be “F2”, or “Delete”) to hit when powering up will take you directly to the UEFI or BIOS setup menu. No drives needed. And you won’t be seeing any HP, Dell, or Windows recovery menus here.

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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JohnW: Thanks for confirming this very important fact: one can always access the UEFI or BIOS in basically the same way at start up, whether the HD (or SSD) has an OS installed on it, or is a blank one.

By the way, on my PC, at the moment, one gets to the UEFI window by hitting the Escape key repeatedly at one second intervals, approximately, until the OEM-installed “HP Tools” menu window opens. When the disk is replaced with an still blank SSD, the HP Tools will be gone and I will have to find the correct key by trial and error. But at least I will not be in a real hurry, as nothing else will happen (no splash screen or Windows startup window will open in a matter of seconds), so I’ll no longer have to get to the UEFI before that happens.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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JohnW

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OscarCP: I have replaced Windows 7 with Linux Mint and Ubuntu a number of times. I used to just wipe the existing HDD with Nuke and Boot, however lately I have been replacing the HDD with an SSD (especially on laptops) or a big 1TB WD Black spinner. A Crucial 1TB MX500 SATA SSD is around $130 and a 500GB about half of that. A 3.6″ WD Black 7200 RPM 1TB HDD is about $70. At the current cost point of a lowly SATA SSD it is really a no brainer. The machine will still literally fly, even with a relatively slow (compared to newer M.2 and PCIe versions) SATA SSD, and especially with the i7 and 8GB of ram. As others have said if you do not like Linux you can just replace the original drive (which after the SSD will feel like a dog. ). Since you are on an older machine, you will not encounter some of the hardware support issues (PCIe booting, NVMe, etc.) that using the newest tech may have.

Your BIOS or UEFI will still be accessible without the original HDD or any boot drive.

For Mint, the two most popular versions are Cinnamon and Mate. I prefer the Cinnamon version, but my wife likes Mate more, even thought she was migrating from Ubuntu. Mint as of 18.3 allowed a lot of control over updating and defaulted to a cautious approach. I know 19 has some changes, but I have not heard any real complaining. I have had no problems. To me if coming from Windows 7, Mate will look familiar to a large degree. Bottom left start, raising menus, etc in the default setup. Cinnamon is more modernistic, but not dumbed down like Metro or a smart phone.

After install, you will want to make some some settings adjustments to optimize SSD read/write wear. I know that the article has been linked a munber of times on here.

If using Firefox and Thunderbird save your Windows profiles and copy/paste them into Linux. Those programs will be identical in look and feel as under Windows.

My last refresh of the wifes laptop including the backed up profiles and data took under 2 hours and she could not tell the difference.

One thing I have found it to not get too bleeding edge with new hardware for a Linux install to avoid driver or kernal issues. In my case my only major problem was once too old onboard the CPU graphics hardware on one machine.

Go for it!

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OscarCP

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Bill C, Thanks for your latest advice. If you don’t mind looking at what I am asking Cybertooth  just before your post, perhaps you’d like to comment also on that, which I’ll appreciate.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I believe the post by -mn (#336763), and others in the thread address this. Some UEFI setups will look very similar to a Windows GUI, but are on the motherboard, not the drive.

Even on the HP desktops and one HP laptop I converted to Linux by wiping the HDD had a way to access the UEFI on the motherboard. I really had to dig on the HP website for a full repair manual to get the proper key combos to launch the UEFI (or BIOS). The user manuals that came with the pre-configured machines were not designed for a person swapping an OS or changing boot drives.

I have never had an issue when replacing the spinner with an SSD. I was always offered a configurable (via keyboard) UEFI or BIOS screen even without an installed boot drive when I did the right key combos. Sometimes with a new HDD or blank SSD, the machine will give an error like, “No Boot Device – press XXX for setup” which gets you into the UEFI or BIOS.

SEPARATE ISSUE: If you are using an older PC, make sure the BIOS/UEFI is set to allow keyboard use without an OS or it has a PS2 port. Some older systems will not have USB support until system and/or OS boot, which means a USB keyboard may not work. Do test this before you remove the original OS or HDD while you are setting the boot order to allow booting from a USB stick or DVD media. I have also found some cheaper portable USB DVD players are not boot capable.

I also saw a laptop that had a hardware based DVD player application that allowed playing DVDs without actually booting into Windows. I no longer remember any of the details, except the interface was crude.

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Well. That part is a bit more complicated…

The base UEFI in normal PCs has to work off the motherboard directly, as it would be unreasonable to have to preload model-specific contents on disks for field integration of optional parts (and turning on RAID which usually invalidates all preexisting data blocks on the HD anyway), warranty replacement, and such.

Nonstandard models, such as some tablet-type devices that have the “disk” soldered into the motherboard and don’t have any setup option to boot from optical drive, may or may not depend on things on the “HD” for more of the boot sequence. (These usually don’t have any way to boot a normal Windows install media either, requiring some kind of model-specific field service media to reinstall the operating system if necessary. Also tend to have problems with Windows updates/upgrades…)

However, some manufacturers have optional firmware components for normal PCs that do install into the UEFI partition, such as more comprehensive diagnostics. You should be able to reinstall these afterwards.

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OscarCP

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Thanks. Yes, I understand that the UEFI is some kind of firmware, in non-volatile memory, since part of what it does is to load the OS at startup, so it needs to be ready to go before the OS wakes up, or with no OS at all. But I always prefer to check and make sure by asking first, because things sometimes have unexpected, really strange surprises in how they are actually set up to work.  Also often the answers are more interesting and better than my questions.

Perhaps, if you do not mind looking at the question I have asked Cybertooth here ( #336766 ) about reaching the UEFI without the drives installed, or with a blank HD that still has to have the Linux OS installed on it, I’ll be very interested in any comments you might have about that.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Bill C.

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Well yes.

“The UEFI boot manager is a firmware policy engine that can be configured by modifying architecturally defined global NVRAM variables. The boot manager will attempt to load UEFI drivers and UEFI applications (including UEFI OS boot loaders) in an order defined by the global NVRAM variables.”

Now, the firmware direct user interface is model-dependent, just like old-style BIOS setup was. Nothing stopping manufacturers from making it dependent on a physical, old-style key lock for example… like on HP K-class servers… or whatever they may think of. On some systems you’d probably find it easiest to do this with a screwdriver. I certainly did. (Won’t name the brand.)

But, the UEFI spec includes standardized access methods from within a booted operating system.
If you can get a suitable Linux package (say a livecd or usb installer) booted up on it, “sudo efibootmgr” is a lot more standardized than anything else.

There’s a good, if a bit longish, explanation of UEFI at https://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/25/uefi-boot-how-does-that-actually-work-then/ and a comprehensive listing of technical details at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface …

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Bill C., OscarCP

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Hi @oscarcp, I went into the office this morning and saw your question:

One question about something that you wrote: ” I can get into the UEFI whether or not any drives are connected. ” Is there some place with instructions on how to do that?

Here is the manual for what appears to be the laptop model that you have. On page 112, the guide says to press the Escape key and then the F10 key as you’re booting to access the BIOS. I highly recommend that you review pages 112-116 there until you feel comfortable with the information.

Ascaris answered the Linux part of your question and I can’t improve on that.  

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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OscarCP

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Cybertooth and mn- , Thanks to you both for answering my question on accessing the UEFI.

By now, I probably have as much information as I need to decide how to proceed. I’ll probably back up to an external disk a few things in the current HD that I have recently created and saved there (the last full backup was earlier this year), then replace this hard disk with a 1 TB SSD (while probably getting an USB connector for the old HD), then boot up the PC with Mint from an USB flash drive and, finally, install Mint from there in the new, blank SSD. But I’ll give all that a bit more thought before proceeding. Then, if all goes well, I’ll let you know. And if it all does not go well, I’ll also let you know. I might yet come back with the occasional question, if I get stuck somewhere in this process.

Thanks to all of you for answering my questions, explaining important concepts, describing problems one might encounter and should watch out for, commenting on related issues, and being so very generously helpful to me that way.

Besides me, others have to be thinking now about what to do with their Win 7 PCs if they do not want to install Win 10 after 7’s EOL, but  unlike me, they still have the leisure of waiting several months to make that decision. When they stumble on this thread (its title might call to them) what you have written here will be quite helpful to them as well. And they also might have questions of their on, so the thread might become active once more, now and then. If generosity is its own reward, I think you will be rewarded plenty enough, now, and even for some time to come.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Cybertooth

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There is a really good web site for not only setting up Mint, but also what to do AFTER you’ve installed Mint (to tweak it for both best performance and to your liking!). I always suggest it for new users, it’s very well written, and addresses most of your concerns:

https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com/p/1.html

There is great advice on this thread, especially with switching to either an SSD (or a hybrid SSD drive, if you like).

One thing that slows people down is “What is the equivalent of programs I use in Windows??”. Here’s a useful site for that!

https://alternativeto.net/platform/linux/

As I mentioned, there is great support here, as well as the Linux Mint forums:

https://forums.linuxmint.com/

Many of your questions may be answered already!

Good luck, and let us know how you’re doing! I use both Mint and Debian MX18 on my 10 year old Lenovo x200 laptops, and they run great! (I’ve upgraded them to 8gig ram and SSD’s).

 

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Cybertooth, SueW

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OscarCP wrote:

By the way, on my PC, at the moment, one gets to the UEFI window by hitting the Escape key repeatedly at one second intervals, approximately, until the OEM-installed “HP Tools” menu window opens. When the disk is replaced with an still blank SSD, the HP Tools will be gone and I will have to find the correct key by trial and error.

For HPs of that age use F10 to enter BIOS/UEFI Setup and F9 for the Boot Device Options menu. Keep pressing F10 or F9 from the moment the HP logo appears at power-on.

Hope this helps…

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Rick Corbett ( #339490 ): I understood that the HP Tools are installed on the HD. Are you saying they are installed in non-volatile memory, so they remain accessible after installing a new and blank SSD instead of the original HD?

By the way, my PC is an HP Pavilion dv6 with a 750 GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, Intel graphics chipset and an x64, 2 GHz, I-7 “sandy bridge” CPU with four hardware cores running eight virtual processors., ca. 2011

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Here is the user manual for the setup utility on the HP Pavilion DV6: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c01662442

It states:

The Setup Utility is a ROM-based information and customization utility that can be used even when your Windows® operating system is not working.

Open the Setup Utility by turning on or restarting the computer. While the “Press the ESC key for Startup Menu” message is displayed in the lower-left corner of the screen, press esc.

Page 6 on System Configuration Menus covers setting boot options.

The full list of manuals is located here: https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-pavilion-dv6-2100-entertainment-notebook-pc-series/4041735/model/4121245/manuals

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Rick Corbett

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OscarCP wrote:

Rick Corbett ( #339490 ): I understood that the HP Tools are installed on the HD. Are you saying they are installed in non-volatile memory, so they remain accessible after installing a new and blank SSD instead of the original HD?

Perhaps HP consumer devices are different but I doubt it (‘cos they mostly all used the same/similar AMIBios IIRC). I worked with hundreds of HP business laptops and desktops for many years up to 5 years ago. The very first thing we did was wipe the HDDs to get rid of the OEM install. The F10/F9 keys are firmware-resident in the BIOS/UEFI itself, not HDD-based.

Try it. Shut down, power on then press F10 (instead of ESC) at the HP logo. What have you got to lose? It’ll either work to enter BIOS/UEFI Setup or it won’t.

Hope this helps…

EDIT: It looks like HP consumer devices *are* different… apparently it’s ESC then F10 (or F9), the keys are embedded in the BIOS/UEFI firmware.

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OscarCP

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JohnW and Rick Corbett: Thanks for explaining this. It’s good to know one can access the BIOS or UEFI (UEFI in my case) by pressing a certain function key, regardless whether there is or there is not an OS installed on the HD or SSD, or anything at all there.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I have a few related and probably quite naïve questions, but am asking them because I have not read or heard anything that can give me a clear idea of the answers:

If I “nuke” Windows, for example by reformatting the hard disk, which will wipe out (I think) the peripherals’ drivers as well, and install Linux (Mint) instead on this disk, once this is done, will I still have access to keyboard, trackpad and optical drives? What about an external keyboard or a mouse? The PC is a 7 1/2 Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit, HP Pavilion dv6 laptop. I could dig up, if necessary to get an answer, the keyboard, etc. information necessary to identify those items, although I hope that won’t be necessary, because a general type of answer may be enough.

If the answer is “Yes”, how is that possible? If the answer is “No”, what is to be done?

Thanks.

 

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The keyboard and mouse should work,
However, you may need drivers for the other hardware. Before you start, download Speccy (free) and print out the hardware specs on your laptop. That way, if you have problems, you will know what hardware drivers to look for.
Other ways to get that information are: Control Panel\Device Manager, run msinfo32.exe, or use Belarc Advisor (free).

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Thank you, PKCano. I’ll make sure to do that a.s.a.p.

And: Sorry, I am the “anonymous” above; once more, I forgot to login…

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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In my experience generally, the older the hardware is, the more likely it is that it will have out of the box driver support.

The main nuisances are proprietary drivers that some distros will not bundle within a distro due to them not meeting “open source” license requirements. In those cases, you may need to install them yourself, if the distro doesn’t offer to download them for you.

It might be a good idea to use a network connection during the install so that updates and optional components can be loaded from the available repositories.

The good news is that this is not likely to affect basic functionality such as keyboard, mouse, graphics, etc.

In my opinion, one of the quickest ways to get a quick read on this situation is to download the Linux distro that you intend to install and burn it to DVD-R(RW), then boot it live from your optical drive. That should only take a few minutes.

Then you will see immediately after booting up what hardware works out of the box with the included drivers in the live distro. You can do this without nuking your Windows disk, as it will remain untouched.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Bill C.

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JohnW: Thank you so much, that looks like a very good way to test the waters before jumping in. Would it also work if one were to boot from a flash drive instead of from a DVD?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Honestly in 15 years I have never put Linux on a flash drive. I have a box of re-writeable DVD-RW that I recycle for my test distros.

The flash would work as well, so whatever you are comfortable using.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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I also suggest booting to the LiveDVD to check what works or doesn’t work, do it frequently with different ‘flavors’ of Linux but for normal use prefer Linux Mint.  Just be careful that you use the .iso file as the Source for burning the disc, don’t just copy that file to the disc as it won’t boot up.  You can even create the Bootable USB drive from the booted LiveDVD, listed on the programs menu.  An issue to watch for is whether your printer is found and usable, some versions have gotten better about having that support.  For simplicity I always use the DVD-R or DVD+R discs as some computers won’t boot the RW types.

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Thanks, but I do not understand what is the difference between burning the .iso file to a DVD and copying it to the DVD.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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An ISO is a compressed file – one file containing hundreds of other files.
Burning the IOS to a DVD uncompresses (extracts) the file into its individual components (files and folders) and creates a bootable install media.

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Both are what can be called old processes, copying is simply storage of the file on the disc while the burning process used by a program creates the bootable disc then extracts and puts the files on the disc.

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Burning an .iso is simple in Windows.

Just right click on the .iso file, and select “Burn disc image”.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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I prefer to boot from a USB “with persistence” so any changes you make will be retained on the next boot. Additionally, if you use YUMI Multiboot USB Creator, you can load several ISOs on the stick (including various utilities such as Clonezilla) and boot into your choice of OS or utility.

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JohnW

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Now you just had to go and make things complicated, LOL!

But good info to have! Thanks!

On the flip side, if you use write once only media for the image, you can be assured nothing will ever be written to that disc again.

For example, say that you have a clean distro .iso that you have verified the checksum for, and you just want to boot your device to access a secure banking site. Having the knowledge that NOTHING can persist from session to session would be assurance that you haven’t acquired any hitchhikers along the way, such as any keyloggers or trojans.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Sorry to keep asking these questions, but: if I copy the .iso file from a DVD to a USB flash drive (memory stick) can I then boot from the flash drive? For example, if it turned out that the optical drive of the PC is not working, as part of the overall problem I am having with it. And has the flash drive to be completely empty before copying an installation file to it, so one can use this drive to boot the PC? There is a special Windows command to do this, so the .iso file is copied in a useful form to the drive, if memory serves.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Please read this post from PKcano again: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/how-one-totally-replaces-windows-7-with-linux-on-a-pc/#post-340051

The same applies to either optical DVD or USB flash.

The .iso image must be “burned” onto the boot media specifically as an .iso image. No file copy process will achieve that. If you just copy it the result will be unbootable. You will just have another copy of an .iso file.

I put emphasis earlier on the DVD iso burn, because this process is built-in to Windows. Thus it is simpler because it is ready to use. Resulting in a bootable DVD disc.

To put the .iso on a flash drive and make it bootable requires you to find, install, and use a 3rd party utility to do so. Not as simple if you don’t already know how to do this task. Like I said, do this if you are comfortable with it. Either way will work, but bottom line is that copying the .iso file will not work.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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You “burn” the ISO file directly to USB using a program such as Rufus, YUMI or any of a number of such applications. Then reboot from the newly created USB.

Some programs will allow you to create a “persistence” file (e.g. YUMI), so any changes you make (e.g. saving bookmarks to the browser) are retained on the next booting of the USB.

I found this useful:

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/14912/create-a-persistent-bootable-ubuntu-usb-flash-drive/

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I agree with what you say, but one of the reasons for moving to a Linux OS is the improved security versus Windows, so hopefully one shouldn’t have to worry about keyloggers & trojans!

Eventually, one wants to progress from a Live USB or DVD and actually install one’s choice of Linux.

But I guess you can’t get more secure banking than from a Live session as you describe.

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Ask Ubuntu: How can I detect a keylogger on my system?

https://askubuntu.com/questions/169887/how-can-i-detect-a-keylogger-on-my-system

StackExchange: How to detect and remove a Linux trojan?

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/4060/how-to-detect-and-remove-a-linux-trojan

Your odds are better than with Windows, but it’s not a zero possibility…

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Nothing’s 100% safe.

You can go directly to the bank and get mugged on the way out!

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Quite true!

I went around and around with my 80+ year old Dad when he refused to continue using his Windows PC to do his online banking with. He had read an article about malware and it scared him half to death. He really had no understanding of computers at all!

So I got him a Mac, and told him is was safer than Windows, but not 100%.

But as long as he did all of his web surfing and emails on the PC, and only connected to the bank with his Mac, he would be just fine. He even made sure that only one of them was powered on at a time, so nothing could spread over the air-gap, LOL!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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And did he hold his breath between switching one off and switching the other one on, so as not to spread any infection?!

I’ll correct my earlier comment. Death is 100% safe. R.I.P.

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I’ll rephrase my question:

If one has the Mint .iso file already and properly burnt on a DVD, and the optical drive is (as it can’t be ruled out in this case) uncooperative, can one then copy, burn, … (please, fill in the blank) the already installed .iso to an USB memory stick and use this one to install Mint, instead of the now useless DVD? Or does one have to get a new .iso file, perhaps one meant exclusively for installation on flash drives, instead? Thanks.

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I don’t think that would work. You would need to use one of the previously mentioned utilities to place the .iso in the flash drive and make it bootable.

You could use the same source .iso for either boot media. No need to download again.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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Then, perhaps, I could copy the file somewhere, let’s say on the HD or on an external drive, properly install the original on the DVD and properly install the copy on the flash drive, without the police coming to get me soon after?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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What’s up with the police? It’s free and open source, so no copy protection! Make as many copies as you wish and give them to all of your friends…

Plus you can always download a fresh copy of Linux Mint .iso from here: https://linuxmint.com/download.php

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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You don’t need the DVD. “Burn” or “install” the ISO file to the USB stick using a suitable 3rd party program.

Here is a walk-through:

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/14912/create-a-persistent-bootable-ubuntu-usb-flash-drive/

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DrBonzo, OscarCP

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@oscarCP – For what it’s worth, the HowtoGeek link above was what I used when I made my first installation of Ubuntu. It works! Do what the article tells you and you’ll be up and running fairly quickly, even if you don’t fully understand all the little details.

When I first started looking into installing Ubuntu, folks told me “just download it and run it” Well, not quite! You do download a file but just as folks on this thread – and the HowToGeek article – say, it’s a bit more involved than that. You need to burn a .iso file to a flash drive or dvd, etc. (I used a flash drive just because my old laptop didn’t have an optical drive.)

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OscarCP

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Check this out: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/linux-book-bundle-for-15-until-3-24-19/

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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@OscarCP
Here’s what an ISO looks like. There are 3 Win7 ISOs and 2 Win10 ISOs. Notice that each are ONE big file.

Here’s what the Win10 ISO looks like when it is burned onto a DVD. The files and folders are extracted (expanded) to make the boot media. Notice the setup.exe that starts the Win10 installation

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OscarCP

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Or, if you’re really uncomfortable with the process, you can order a pre-made Mint CD from here:

https://www.osdisc.com/products/linuxmint

Cost is $6 plus shipping, I think for a DVD, somewhat higher for a flash drive.

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@YP

OscarCP, lots of good advise, may I offer the following:

– use rufus software,  it has a portable version, which I have used for burning
mint and xubuntu iso onto a flash drive. It’s really fast compare to others.
– https://rufus.ie/
– Since you have an older system, the default should work.
– It really is pretty easy. The hard part is figuring to boot from flash, which I
believe you have the key sequence from previous post.

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OscarCP

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Well now! Thanks to all of you, once more, for explaining something, in this case the installation process, in such a clear way that I would hope is also of help to anyone that, in the future, stumbles on this thread looking for information on how to install Linux on a Windows PC, particularly in a situation where it is better to replace Windows completely rather than keeping it in dual boot. Thanks!

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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