Internal or External Hard Drive for Backup

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I’d like some Loungers’ input on whether it’s better to use a secondary internal drive for backup or an external one? Just saw a great deal on a WD internal 1 TB drive ($70) which is what prompted my question.

I back up in the cloud via Mozy every day, save images on an external drive and save some really key files on DVD or CD-R as well.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Linda

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I use an Ext. HD because it can be stored away from the PC. Ask bbearren about what fires can do to the internal HDs. If your Image is on a separate HD in the same PC, it is stored in the same enclosure and will be affected by the same internal and external problems as the OS drive.

I suppose for speed of restoration, you could keep a copy on both a separate Int. HD and an Ext. HD. The internal will restore faster, but then again my Images restore in about 10 minutes. Understand that my Images do not include my data. I have the data on a separate partition to isolate it from the OS partition. I also back up the data separately as well.

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Thanks, Ted. That’s kind of what I was thinking, too. Besides, opening the computer to replace the original hard drive (a task accomplished recently with LOTS of Lounge help!!) was somewhat scary; attaching an external drive via USB, totally relaxing!

As an addendum, I’ve been keeping a hard drive free for only images. Is that necessary or can I use it for data back up as well?

Addendum #2: how do you keep your data separate from your images? Sounds as if it involves creating partitions, something I’ve never done. My image restore when I replaced the drive took almost 2 hours. Of course, I didn’t mind when I discovered that, yes, it really did work and my computer and everything on it were back completely! Wow!

Linda

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Just remember that data backup is much more critical than system backup. You can always recover the system with and install disk or recovery partition but if you don’t have a data backup, you’re dead. Separating data and system files is a convenience item that allows system backup/restore to be done quicker.

I keep both on one partition that I image weekly. It takes a little longer than simply a system image backup but then I have data and system backed up in one operation. With Acronis, I can do the backup while I continue to use the PC. Use whichever system you choose (one system and data partition or separate data and system partitions) but be sure your data backups are frequent.

Jerry

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Addendum 1: I store Images for 4 separate PCs and data from 2 of those PCs on the same Ext. HD

Addendum 2: Yes it does involve partitioning, or in your case a separate HD already in your system. Use the approved method to move your data folders to a separate HD disk. The drive has to be formatted and set to logical. All data folders can be moved to a separate location (data, pictures, music, favorites, etc, including WLM folder)

Use this screen shot for the mail folder:

32941-MailStoreFolder

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I use both internal and external drives for storage and backup. I will also burn DVD disks as well.

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Thanks for all the input! Here’s my plan going forward:

a. For now, I think I’ll stick with system and data on the one new internal drive. Partitioning looks a bit beyond my comfort level, now I’ve checked Ted’s screenshot!

b. Do more frequent image backups – try for weekly – to supplement data cloud storage. They’re easy to do with Macrium Reflect.

c. Will use new external drive for data backups as well as images.

d. Like Clint, I’ll use DVDs as extra peace of mind for critical data.

I appreciate learning what other do. The main thing is, as Ted (Medico) reminds us: BACKUP – and frequently!

Linda:)

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I backup to an Ext hard drive in the event of hurricane, sinkhole, fire, etc. I can “hopefully” grab the Ext HD and haul butt. Plus, it’s safer to have a backup on a drive not connected to the computer, and I unplug the power to my Ext HD when I’m done “just in case” We get a biblical amounts lightning here, and it’s good practice to disconnect equipment you don’t need from mains (outlet)

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Good tips, Gomek. I like your idea of unplugging items not in use and for the same “living in Florida” reason! In the midst of bad storms, I even unplug the UPS!!

Linda

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Good tips, Gomek. I like your idea of unplugging items not in use and for the same “living in Florida” reason! In the midst of bad storms, I even unplug the UPS!!

Linda

Yes, you never know when a sink hole could open up or lightning in the summer could easily fry your equipment. Quick story. Back in Aug 2008 lightning hit our complex, traveled through the coax from the attic, fried a TV, took out my router and modem, and fizzeled out before enter my computer.

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Gomek: that’s a terrible story, but one that will make everyone who reads it even more careful about backing up – in many places!

Re. defragging, I’ve followed some Loungers’ advice and defragged before doing image backups. Have never tried Safe mode (I mean, I know what it is and have entered it to check it out, but never did trouble shooting using it as I had no clue how to), but the idea of doing so in Safe mode is intriguing. Defragging takes a l-o-n-g time when I do it.

How do you get to the defrag option in Safe mode?

… the knowledge you gain from reading through this website is priceless. I am continually entertained and amazed by the vast knowledge that is freely shared on these pages.

You are so completely right! It is a continual delight for me that these total strangers (well, some I regard as “Lounge friends” they have replied to so many of my posts!) are so willing to give of their time and their knowledge so generously and so unbelievably patiently. Hope I can learn enough to do the same one day!

Linda

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Re. defragging, I’ve followed some Loungers’ advice and defragged before doing image backups. Have never tried Safe mode (I mean, I know what it is and have entered it to check it out, but never did trouble shooting using it as I had no clue how to), but the idea of doing so in Safe mode is intriguing. Defragging takes a l-o-n-g time when I do it.

Linda

Another reason I prefer MyDefrag is that it will run peacefully in the background while I continue using my PC. It’s very light-footed, and doesn’t cause any noticable degradation in performance. In fact, it’s running now, although I don’t really know what partition it’s working on. I use multiple partitions/logical drives (18 usable, 2 system/hidden at present) to organize my data according to type and purpose.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Re. defragging, I’ve followed some Loungers’ advice and defragged before doing image backups. Have never tried Safe mode (I mean, I know what it is and have entered it to check it out, but never did trouble shooting using it as I had no clue how to), but the idea of doing so in Safe mode is intriguing. Defragging takes a l-o-n-g time when I do it.

How do you get to the defrag option in Safe mode?

Open up My Computer. Right-click on the C: drive (or whichever physical hard drive you want to defrag; don’t try to defrag a flash drive or SSD) and choose Properties / Tools / Defragmentation.

Defragging in Safe Mode is just like when you are in regular Windows; it’s just a whole lot faster, because there’s little to nothing running in the background.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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You are so completely right! It is a continual delight for me that these total strangers (well, some I regard as “Lounge friends” they have replied to so many of my posts!) are so willing to give of their time and their knowledge so generously and so unbelievably patiently. Hope I can learn enough to do the same one day!

As an IT person with lots of experience, and therefore someone who knows a few things (there’s a lot I don’t know as well!), I can tell when someone KNOWS what they are talking about; and when someone like that shares his or her expertise about how to solve a problem, it’s a lot of fun reading what they have to say, and following their thought process, especially when they hit the nail precisely on the head, and especially when their solution was something that I never thought of.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Yes, you never know when a sink hole could open up or lightning in the summer could easily fry your equipment. Quick story. Back in Aug 2008 lightning hit our complex, traveled through the coax from the attic, fried a TV, took out my router and modem, and fizzeled out before enter my computer.

Even better; lightening hit the antenna and traveled down the 300 ohm wire and fried every electronic device that it branched to. Since computers weren’t hook up to that, they were spared but it traveled in on the phone line with the neighbor and took out the modem, the router and the nic…but spared the computer as a whole. :clapping:

Repairing later we found that for about 55 ft. of the run, the wire inside the 300 ohm line had melted and wherever it backed up it melted through the housing and dripped out on the false ceiling panels. Now that was a hotline!

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YIKES! Now that’s scary.

Linda

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I do imaging (EaseUS Todo Backup) about once a month to an external hard drive; I do continual differential backups (Memeo) to the same external hard drive. If I have to leave, I can take the external hard drive with me. Also, I have the same stuff on two separate drives: internal and external. If one drive fails, everything will still be on the other drive.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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That sounds like exactly my system, although with different programs. I also use Mozy Home for cloud backup and, to be honest, probably rely on it for differential backups more than on the external drive. Maybe I should re-establish backups on the external drive as well as it has lots of space and I like having everything “in a box” to take with me if necessary. Good thought!

All I do know now – and am grateful for – is that images do work!! Thank heaven.

Linda

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I also use an online backup for added security, it’s just one more means of keeping something I don’t want to loose safe.
Online forms of backup will do just fine as long as the service your using provides some form of security in the way of file encryption.
But the best way to backup will be in multiple forms and means.

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I create backups on a secondary internal HDD.
I also use TeraCopy to ensure perfect duplicates are created on an external HDD which is connected as required.

A week ago a Linux Boot Crash / Windows Restart crash converted my GPT style internal HDD into one with an MBR Disk signature,
and as a result Windows now sees the entire contents as either RAW or Free Space or Unallocated, destroying my backups and my downloaded files.

Had my external drive been plugged in I would have faced disaster.

Because it was not plugged in I still have duplicate backups,
and my browser remembers my download history so I can go get them again.

N.B.
I am also using a Data Recovery tool on that Disk and it is doing a very good job,
however my partition image backups are about 6.5 GB in size and the more recent ones were probably fragmented.
Data Recovery is more difficult if the file was fragmented before loss,
and perhaps 60% of the more recent files are now corrupted – possibly because the fragments are connected out of sequence.
The end result is that they have the same number of bytes as the external duplicates – but they are invalid.

Data Recovery is good – But duplicate and physically separate backups are better.

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Data Recovery is more difficult if the file was fragmented before loss,
and perhaps 60% of the more recent files are now corrupted – possibly because the fragments are connected out of sequence.
The end result is that they have the same number of bytes as the external duplicates – but they are invalid.

That is one of the justifications for keeping drives/partitions defragmented, which is often overlooked. I’ve used recovery software a number of times over the years for clients, and success is higher with less fragmentation.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I’ve used drive imaging for backup many years, now. When drives were smaller, I backed up to DVD’s, and transitioned to external drives as drive sizes got north of 500GB. I’m now using a 3TB external that can be connected either though USB or ethernet, and I’m connecting through ethernet. I use it to backup both my desktop and laptop. In addition, I have an internal 1TB drive in my desktop for backup, and I still backup critical data (such as financial) to DVD in addition to it being included in my drive imaging.

I also have multiple copies scattered between desktop and laptop of important data, and stuff that I could re-download, but would rather not go to the trouble of hunting it down. I’m with CLiNT on the idea of using a combination of backup solutions. Sort of belt-and-suspenders with raincoat-and-umbrella. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I’ve also dual booted for many years, and there are a number of advantages, not the least of which is the ability to backup one OS while working in the other. Image for Windows allows continued use of the PC while a backup is being written (which I do from time to time, and which other good imaging software can do as well), but creating an image outside the OS environment has always been my comfort zone.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Nothing to add to this, but wanted to say how much learning I’m getting from reading these “posts of experience”!

Thanks,

Linda

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Long before there was NTFS there was defragmentation,
and the need to back up my 20 MB (not GB or TB) HDD onto a stack of 5.25″ floppies before betting my system on freedom from BSOD’s and Power Blackouts.

I still have misgivings about the risks of something going wrong during defragmentation.

The principle reason I have seen for defragging is faster access due to fewer disk seeks as it skips from the end of one fragment to the start of another,
but since I rarely need to read a backup that is not relevant to me,
half a dozen extra Disk Seeks whilst reading half a dozen fragments in a 6.5 GB file will not stretch my patience :rolleyes:

I will continue to make duplicate backups of the important stuff,
but will in future create and reserve one partition for my partition Image backups and defrag the free space in which they are stored.

Regards
Alan

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Long before there was NTFS there was defragmentation,
and the need to back up my 20 MB (not GB or TB) HDD onto a stack of 5.25″ floppies before betting my system on freedom from BSOD’s and Power Blackouts.

I still have misgivings about the risks of something going wrong during defragmentation.

The principle reason I have seen for defragging is faster access due to fewer disk seeks as it skips from the end of one fragment to the start of another,
but since I rarely need to read a backup that is not relevant to me,
half a dozen extra Disk Seeks whilst reading half a dozen fragments in a 6.5 GB file will not stretch my patience :rolleyes:

I will continue to make duplicate backups of the important stuff,
but will in future create and reserve one partition for my partition Image backups and defrag the free space in which they are stored.

Regards
Alan

I sometimes defrag my NTFS hard drive. But I always do it from Safe Mode, so that there’s little or nothing running which will slow the process. (Defrag is painfully slow if you do it from within a regular Windows session and you have a lot of processes running at the time.)

If the graph shows that the drive is fragmented, I figure that it can’t hurt to defrag it. And I have often found lots of fragmentation, and then totally defragged the drive by running the process a few times.

Therefore, when you say “Long before there was NTFS there was defragmentation”, I’m not sure what you mean by that.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Nothing to add to this, but wanted to say how much learning I’m getting from reading these “posts of experience”!

Thanks,

Linda

Linda, the knowledge you gain from reading through this website is priceless. I’ve contributed a tiny amount, but I’ve learned a huge amount. I am continually entertained and amazed by the vast knowledge that is freely shared on these pages.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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My first PC didn’t have a hard drive. My first PC with a hard drive had a whopping 437MB. I defragged that one regularly, and every hard drive since. I have never had one single issue with defragging. I see defragging and drive imaging as going hand in hand. I have had drive images that would not mount, and hence could not be restored (which is good enough reason to test drive images frequently, to make sure they are there when needed).

When I work on a “slow” computer for a client, the first thing I do is run an AV/AM to clean out any nasties. The second thing I do is defragment the drive. Defragging a drive which has never been defragged in a year or two of use results in a noticable and significant increase in performance.

A defragmented drive can be imaged in less time than a fragmented drive, which may amount to insignificance, but I feel more confident in imaging a defragmented drive. My defragging chores are handled by Task Scheduler. And for anyone running Windows 7/8, yours are too, unless you have deleted that default task from Task Scheduler. In my case, I’ve substituted MyDefrag for the Windows Defrag task in Task Scheduler, for the difference in algorithms – MyDefrag uses the Windows API to do the actual work, the same one Windows Defrag uses.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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The first time that I defragged after installing Win 8 and my apps, the defrag took quite a while to run, Subsequent defrags were fairly quick. I used to use a third party defragger (Auslogics) but it kept nagging me to upgrade, and I do not like that. I’ll have to look at MyDefrag. Is this the correct link? Also does it work properly in Win 8, it does not specifically state it does? It appears the last update was in May, 2010.

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The first time that I defragged after installing Win 8 and my apps, the defrag took quite a while to run, Subsequent defrags were fairly quick. I used to use a third party defragger (Auslogics) but it kept nagging me to upgrade, and I do not like that. I’ll have to look at MyDefrag. Is this the correct link? Also does it work properly in Win 8, it does not specifically state it does? It appears the last update was in May, 2010.

Yes, that is the correct link. There are no nag screens. “It is freeware, no time limit, fully functional, no advertisements.” There is a “Donate” button on the home page, but that is totally voluntary – if one really likes the app, one might donate a few $. And it works just fine in Windows 8, since it uses the Windows API to accomplish the actual movement of files/file fragments (as do most other defrag apps).

I’ve been using it exclusively for a few years, now, after trying a number of different (including paid) defragmentors. As I posted earlier, it can run quite unobtrusively in the background while one continues to use the PC, with no noticable performance difference.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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