Laptop Turns Off

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From time to time, my laptop turns off and won’t turn back on unless I disconnect all peripheral connections and then hold the power button down for 60 seconds. I don’t know how to make this stop happening. Does anyone know what this problem may be?

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I assume you are continuously monitoring/graphing the heat of the cpu and gpu?

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Yes, I am monitoring the temperature of the laptop. It is not hot.

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Knowing the following just might, maybe, help figure this out:

“Now and then” means it does not do this every time after you have started a new session, for example in the morning and after you have been using it for a while? For how many minutes have you set up now the “go to sleep after these many minutes”? Or this does not seem to have to do with any of its current settings? Is its battery charging OK, and is it usually charged considerably more than 10% most of the time? Dumb questions? Maybe, but for openings …

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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It turns off intermittently. There doesn’t seem to be a rhythm to it. I have “go to sleep” set to “never” for plugged in and for battery.  I have the laptop plugged in most of the time. About twice a month, I unplug it and let it use the battery. Otherwise, it is always plugged in.

Lately, I have been turning the laptop off at night and unplugging it. When I get up in the morning, I turn it back on and plug it in. It turns on okay when I do that. When I don’t do this, sometimes I find it turned off in the morning even though I have left it on all night. Sometimes it turns off during the day when the screen is down and I am not using it. Not always, but now and then. As I said, there doesn’t seem to be a reason for it to be happening.

Not dumb questions. Anything leading me to an answer is so very welcome.

 

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Next time you are up, assure you have a complete image backup of your system (Macrium Reflect or similar). Assume critical and quite possibly terminal hardware error cpu, chipset, and or ssd. Answer oscar’s questions if you can (log in before you answer and it will avoid the obligatory “awaiting moderation”

check SMART of ssd/drives. run tests of cpu and memory. Something is causing your bios/cmos to reset. If it’s an old computer I suppose a old/bad cmos battery might cause something

chipset could be failing. Need year of , model, chipset, cpu, blah, blah, blah…

chipset could be overheating even if cpu and gpu are fine. I suppose you could try to run prime and see how fast it fails.

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Anonymous: “Lately, I have been turning the laptop off at night and unplugging it. When I get up in the morning, I turn it back on and plug it in. It turns on okay when I do that.”

I have never left my laptop on all night, always turning it off at the end of a session when calling it a day. It is not hard at all to do, and if it saves being unnecessarily confronted with  weird problems …

Turning it back the next day might sometimes seem to take a long time, but often enough is not nearly that long in reality. Unless one has a very large amount of software bloat all launching at start time, something worth taking a look at. Or one has very little free space left on the computer internal HDD or SSD. Both can result in an annoying slow start, the former is fixable, the second, it depends.

Otherwise:

“Doctor, it hurts when I do this.”

“Then don’t do it.”

Problem solved …

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Check the shutdown log to see if it says what happened.

cheers, Paul

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I have seen the same thing happen when the battery is going bad and has the laptop locked charging with no power for the lap top.

Open a command prompt with Admin privileges.

Enter the following command

powercfg /batteryreport

The report will be saved in the C:\Windows\system32 folder as battery-report.html

Try to run the report after one of the episodes.

The report will say what amount is current full charge and what the design capacity is.  If the full charge values bounce around or is > 10% difference with the design capacity, then there is a problem with the battery.

Also you can remove the battery and use the adapter alone to see if the problem still occurs.

HTH, Dana:))

HTH, Dana:))

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As a side thought – if you have a USB mouse or such, does it stay “lit” after the machine power switches off?

What I’m driving at is some Windows 8 era HPs and quite probably laptops more generally, some USB ports are powered from the 5VSB and some from the main 5V just due to the problems involved in getting a good supply able to sustain the required current to the far flung corners of the main board and out to case mounted ports.

As the 5VSB is also used by the power circuit, it wasn’t unknown for a broken USB socket or port powered USB hard disk to draw enough current to render that supply “bad”, with the side effect the machine wouldn’t turn on in the fault condition.  That condition could of course be the combinative effect of the power states for all devices so connected which could account for the randomness, as could a crushed USB cable.

That said I have seen machines (Dell Lattitude early 3xxx series seems to spring to mind) where even if there is a power indicator it doesn’t always correspond to what is going on (the screen is black, the light is out while the BIOS is in POST ), so I would suggest you toggle the caps lock and see if that lights up during the “not switched on”  condition after pressing the power button, if you have that function, or maybe try an external keyboard that does  as most are UEFI and should initialise an external keyboard in BIOS.. and if ti does and you happen to have the external keyboard with a power button, does that  fare any better? (that is to say your laptop power button could be flaky..)

Finally check the lid switch operates while the machine is working-. The lack of indicators on some machines means they can appear dead even if its simply the backlight is failing rather than turned off, though its hard to gel that occurrence of the former with the act of switching on and off (which with a laptop usually involves moving the lid and operating the lid switch as it lives folded in its bag?.. are you perhaps moving the lid now you’re switching it off at the wall – just leaving it sitting ready to use?)

Have to agree with Krism – we need to know more about your machine’s make and model to have more chance of helping..

 

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Need name brand model year of computer/laptop.

Need version of opsys.

Many people have asked for much tests and info. Please help us out.

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Dell XPS 15 9570 Windows 10 21H2

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Thanks. so 2018, ie recent. So hardware issues not likely. Battery issues not likely.

I am betting you are allowing hibernate and suggest you delete it and thus shut it off as it sometimes conflicts with sleep and when you think it is asleep it is actually hibernating. Check C:/ for hiberfil.sys to see if hibernate is allowed (it IS by default).

From my notes

The best way to delete hiberfil.sys or disable hibernate:

Go to Start menu, type “cmd” open up command prompt (in win10 that is Windows Terminal (Admin))
Type “powercfg.exe -h off” (no quotes)[make sure you are an Administrator]
ENTER
Type “exit” (no quotes)
ENTER

If hiberfil.sys no longer exists in C:, then it worked. You do not need hibernate. This is something I always do on any new windows build (7,8,10,11).

hth.

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The OPs statement:

“I have the laptop plugged in most of the time. About twice a month, I unplug it and let it use the battery. Otherwise, it is always plugged in.”

is the culprit, in my opinion.  Leaving a laptop plugged in 24 hr/day is a guaranteed way to ruin the battery!  What seems to have happened is that the battery simply discharges to the point that the computer shuts down!

My old laptop used to give a 10% warning and 5% warning, but in its last years, there was no warning, it simply shut off.  My new laptop allows the user to set a battery percentage for ‘warning’ which I’ve set to 10%, which gives more than adequate time to either finish what I’m doing or to drag out the charger and plug it in.

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OscarCP

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My laptop is plugged in 24/7 and I have no probs. It stays fully charged.

I think this thread is ? as OP does not respond.

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Alex5723

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The same with me. Laptop in on 24/7/365.

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If you leave your laptop plugged in all the time, you may not know if the battery is good or bad. I’ve had a couple of laptops with bad batteries and even though the icon in the system tray said they were fully charged, when I ran the computer on battery only power, the charge level dropped precipitously and in a matter of minutes the computer died.

Even if the battery is bad, many laptops will run if plugged into the charger, and many will run when plugged into the charger even if the (bad) battery is removed from the computer.

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OscarCP, Charlie

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I remember reading somewhere, possibly in one of Woody’s books that if you’re going to run your laptop primarily from the AC power supply/charger, you should remove the battery.  I’ve been doing this with my 2003 IBM T40 ThinkPad and I still have an original IBM main battery that holds a charge for about an hour or more.

I use the T40 with the original IBM docking station so the battery only gets put in about once every 4 or 5 months to check its charge state.  This works with my old laptop, not sure about the new ones.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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DrBonzo

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I remember reading something like that too. I leave my laptops plugged in all the time – old habits die hard – and haven’t had much issue. The two laptops I mentioned above were already about 15 years old and ready for the recycle bin. I’ve got one now from 2009 with a battery that will only charge to about 65% according to the system tray icon. It runs down to 5% in less than an hour before warning me. Runs fine when plugged in and I’m using it to test Linux Mint patches/updates.

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Charlie

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Charlie: “… if you’re going to run your laptop primarily from the AC power supply/charger, you should remove the battery.”

Maybe that is a good idea. Unless the battery is glued inside the box, as in the new, superthin laptops we are so fortunate to be graced with, these wonderful days, by the leaders of form over function in hardware design. Oh, well …

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Bratkinson’s post demonstrates why we need to know what we’re dealing with – some have battery gauges on the battery, some have not, and as the post doesn’t mention “since we replaced the battery”, chances it still has the OEM one which may have a test gauge..

for example, dell:

https://www.dell.com/community/Laptops-General-Read-Only/Plugged-in-battery-not-charging/td-p/4111156

Some however just indicate their distress in flashing the laptop battery indicator in differing colours.. which would be detailed in the laptop manual so again the detail isn’t in yet.

You might be able to get some info by interrogating the ‘Win32_Battery’ class but I’m not going to recommend running random VBS scripts at this point and given my previous post on WMIC, I probably need to get familiar with PowerShell sometime! (I could get a list of items in the class, but no further, but as I’m using a desktop that might be expected!) so I’ll wait for the information the slow way..

As an aside on batteries (probably no news here, but someone might be interested) –

As to the battery life and the leaving it plugged in or not – that’s down to the improvement in battery management. Older systems did used to ruin the battery in about 6 months if it was seldom used to power the system. Few thought to remove the battery when not needed and to be honest laptop PSU plugs have never been a high reliability part.

The enemy of battery life is disruption of the internal ordering of chemicals in each cell making the battery – and with Lithium batteries that’s effected by the heat generated when power is added to or drawn from the charge stored – a little power is wasted as heat as the bulk of the power passes through the internal resistance of the chemicals in the battery either inbound or outbound.

That resistance, and subsequent power loss as heat, increases with time at elevated temperature, so if you charge or discharge the battery at maximum rate you effectively slowly cook it into failure – which is why modern charging levels seem to “stall” at weird percentages and take a long time to hit 100 percent.

The battery charge systems used now have intelligence and the machine counts watt/hours in and out of the battery (as well as a grand total of in and out since commissioning, which indicates the batteries likely life used, and the current stored capacity in the battery, the figures being stored in flash by the battery controller within the battery), and the battery controller works out the transfer of power involved in a running charge / discharge process and likely heat in the core of the cells in a battery generated as a result of the action, and stops charging to give the battery time to cool down (or rather, for the heat to move from the core of the cells in the battery to the battery packaging, inside which the temperature sensor is housed) before deciding if it is likely the core of the cells have cooled enough to begin charging based on the battery case temperature, or if the cells are likely to still be to warm (for example if the laptop is being used as its name suggests, so there is no free air moving around he battery to take the heat away.) That’s why if you’re using the machine it might actually charge more slowly – it depends as to if the designer envisages a power pack charging a machine in use at maximum machine load, or maybe supplies a smaller power pack really only suitable to charge the battery effectively in standby when the machine has shut down to low power mode due to a lack of battery power, or to run the machine but have power little left to charge the battery at a noticeable rate.

As the charge that has entered the battery is known, it can be compared to its capacity so charging can be completely turned off when the battery is fully charged- which is why replacing batteries in a failed pack is often not a solution- the battery controller refuses to charge the cells as its charge counter indicates the cells are fully charged so you need to charge the cells before installing them and run a calibration to flatten them and reset the charge levels. That makes it a nice risky repair, especially as the cases are usually welded and the batteries glued within. Some controllers do check the voltage but may well still indicate an error condition if the battery voltage and charge stored are inconsistent. The controller implementations and electrical connections vary considerably.

The keen eyed will spot there is less protection in discharging (beyond the power management in the laptop) and you need to keep batteries cool, and as the voltage on a battery is a “chemical” property yet it drops as you draw power now you see that difference is what is being wasted as heat, which is why the recommendation is to let a discharged battery go cold… then charge, and to run a laptop on its feet so air circulates around the underside.

So why do you get the problem detailed? Often one battery had a flaw from the outset and got slightly hotter in use, venting much of the water in its electrolyte as steam through its vent over years as its resistance was higher and it gots hotter raising its resistance more, so the effect increases over time and spreads through the battery as each cell heats its neighbours, but the voltage on a dud cell is still roughly right as that’s a chemical thing, but when you try to draw power, that cell supplies no current – it’s effectively a voltage in series with a resistance high enough to drop the entire battery voltage, so the series connected battery either fails or (as some larger batteries have two or three series chains in parallel) overall the battery has reduced capacity, so when you push the power button you get a brief flash of life from the voltage stored in the power supply input stage, but no current to maintain the voltage, so the machine remains largely dead.. or powers off at the merest hint of an interruption to the power from the adapter which is working hard powering the machine and (with an older implementation) throwing charge current at a dead battery (which means “Is the power brick getting unusually hot?” is also a valid query for older machines..).

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DrBonzo, OscarCP

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note on batteries. My 5yr (or whatever) old laptop has an internal battery AND an external/removeable battery. So if I unplug it and remove the external battery it still has battery power. If I wish to change internal hardware like ssd I have to go through a little BIOS procedure to shut off the internal battery as well.

If you power off and unplug a laptop, it STILL has power and will slowly drain that battery over a few days even if off. powering off and unplugging does not affect hibernate. By powering off, you may have simply put it in hibernate state. Unplugging it does nothing.

Again, I bought this laptop used because I can get supurb prices for a laptop that will then work well for me for years. I expect the battery to be old and have no idea of it’s historical use. I am betting, in a pinch, I could easily get 3 hours out of it – more if I have it on only when I really need it. If I cared that much or needed more I could simply buy a new one on ebay. Big deal.

I downsized so that, in an emergency, I could quickly bail. In about a minute I can unlock my laptop, stuff it, the power adapter, and the external ssd (and a few other random goodies(flash sticks etc), in my backpack which resides right next to it. And I am gone. WITH EVERYTHING. I am lazy. very lazy. I make things easy for myself.

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DrBonzo

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Thinking more about this I wondered how long a battery should last – google seemed to be saying ~4 hrs run time. hmmmm.

One site said “2. You can extend the life of your current battery. If you use your laptop as your primary desktop PC, you may be wasting battery cycles by leaving it plugged in all the time. The solution: pop the battery out until you actually need to go somewhere with your laptop. As long as the latter is plugged into an AC outlet, it doesn’t actually need the battery.
Trust me on this: I’ve seen fairly new batteries that could barely last half an hour, even though the laptop rarely went anywhere. When in doubt, pop it out.”

If that is true then my batteries should be totally worthless. Ran a quick test on Mint, FireFox displaying big white page, screen on all the time. I only ran it unplugged for an hour because it was late when I thought of this but after an hour the battery icon said 100%, 69% (I assume that’s the internal battery and the external battery.) So that would seem to suggest that I could run it unplugged for many hours, on my worthless batteries.

LOL

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my laptop turns off and won’t turn back on unless I disconnect all peripheral connections and then hold the power button down for 60 seconds.

Are any of your peripheral connections external spinning disk hard drives that use external power and not USB power?  If so, what brand?

I had similar  events like you describe that turned out to be  caused by an external spinning disk (not SSD) data drive that required external power (not portable).

If this is your circumstance, I give you more detail.

Desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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Sorry I missed the little post..

the machine is a Dell XPS 15 9570 Windows 10 21H2

Nothing obvious on the BIOS update front to have caused any strange boot behaviour bar some logo and bios screen retiming.

The battery is inside the machine, screwed in under the bottom cover- there isn’t a gauge as such.

I’ve attached the table of colours for the battery light from the manual, so if you could literally see what the light shows with the adapter plugged in, and the colour the light shows when it fails to switch on (and what if any colour it changes to after that.. (it might go out))

If the battery only shows the on / off/charging combinations then it seems you could have a rogue USB device which sometimes exceeds the port capacity.

I take it you don’t use the thunderbolt port, or a type C dock with power? My concern there is the machine supports power share – where the laptop charges external devices from the laptop battery even when it has no charger plugged in (on USB and thunderbolt) but its plausible a third party device is “misunderstood” and is staying powered up (drawing power as if it’s a device being charged, flattening the laptop battery) or does not respond correctly to interrogation by the UEFI bios after it has been charged..

So the drill there is to try repeating normal operation, but eject and remove one external device at a time to hopefully localise the problem.

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Just a reminder – if you use a laptop plugged in, without a battery in place, you should use an Uninterruptible Power Supply to prevent potential data loss.

Zig

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great point. I am of the belief that you should always use one anyway!. 🙂

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a wrote:

I downsized so that, in an emergency, I could quickly bail. In about a minute I can unlock my laptop, stuff it, the power adapter, and the external ssd (and a few other random goodies(flash sticks etc), in my backpack which resides right next to it.

That got thinking, maybe time to check my laptop for charge and stuff cause ya neva know…

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Why was I getting this

while trying to submit the above post??

Oh and btw it would be VERY nice if the page ended up actually looking at this message rather than the quoted message.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Why does software sometimes do strange things?
Maybe you clicked something without realising?

cheers, Paul

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May be but i think something else is wonky here. We have heard of lots of posts going missing. Perhaps this is a useful clue

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Just a note, there are no posts missing.  Any post removed gets a note from a moderator.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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wavy, a

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Not if it never get ‘registered’ in the system. I had a post fail to get posted but as there was not notice of failure evident on my screen at the time I was not aware the it did not get ‘posted’. The error shown in post was at the bottom of the page off-screen with no evidence offered as to the failure. I used the term ‘missing’ to indicate how one might describe the result of a post failing in this manor whatever the actual cause of the failure.

My apologies for muddying up the thread, I wanted to mark the actual point of the problem. Again as a clue to what might be happening.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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please take no offense. I have lost no posts in many months and am sloppy so I figure things are fine. Also haven’t heard of lost posts until your post. I use FF and keep it current. I generally run under Mint Cinnamon current, though this is under win11 current. My only problem is when FF or askwoody logs me off and I forget to check, and it gets posted as anonymous , though once @sb fixed that for me as I realized what I had done, logged in, and posted little post saying above was me.

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One word on being enthusiastic about UPS: they have batteries inside, so they keep providing juice during blackouts, for example. When those batteries die, and they will, doesn’t one end up with a big, heavy, useless box?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Most UPSs have batteries that can be replaced.

Sometimes I replace the batteries. Sometimes I get a new unit (depends on what microcenter has at a good price).

EDIT: I get large ones (1000 or such) and plug everything except the HP laser printers into it (though the big one only draws 381w max) – modem, router, 4K player, firestick, TV (even TVs these days don’t draw much – 95w for mine), external ssd, etc.

I do hear a single beep out of it perhaps once a week, so, even living in a big city, spikes happen.

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@sacredtoni any feedback on this? Did you try anything? success? or not? Thanks!

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Turning off at night and on in the morning has helped.

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a

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seems to have drifted off topic here – last thread related to the laptop issue was the one below – any news?

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/laptop-turns-off/#post-2424945

Also it’s normal a UPS to bleep at least once a week – they run a self test at fixed intervals to check the batteries are still operable as sealed batteries can go downhill fast- the main ancillary indication of impending failure is a rapid rise in operating temperature.

I’ve fixed, re-batteried, calibrated and occasionally EEPROM reloaded APC units literally hundreds of times.

 

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Just to be clear – with the switching on bit.

I think what is happening is that problematic device is draining the battery to 10 percent ( leveraging the power sharing, as per the manual snips) and that leaves the laptop with a critical level battery.

The 60 second delay I think was just the time it took for the charger to raise the battery level above critical so the machine considered it “safe” to POST – that is to say there is enough juice left in the battery for Windows to deal with suspending or shutting down should power from the charger be removed.

If you plug the machine in the morning and wait a while, of course the battery will charge  to above the critical level and the machine will work fine when you get to it sometime later.

That’s not really addressing the situation where you might go “out and about” with your machine and devices – it would be a real downer to find half way through a road trip that as you left the problematic device in and shut down the machine wouldn’t turn on later in the trip as it has donated most of the battery power elsewhere..

I suggest maybe look at the manual (page 82 on) and look into turning off the USB power share and see if that resolves your problem. Unfortunately the menu may not tie up exactly with the manual as updates can change things but it should be close enough:

https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/xps-15-9570-laptop_service-manual_en-us.pdf

 

 

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strangeness afoot (though I’m not a subscriber so it could be that – no new posts for 17 hours, apparently…

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You may not have noticed, but this thread is pretty much dead – only useful for increasing your post counts. Problem was stated and answered.

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I was hoping they might drop back to see if there was any more on the laptop after the UPS discussion.

Whilst the solution for the laptop issue “works” in a limited way, it’s doesn’t provide an explicit reason for the issue, or a solution to the problem initially described which allows the user to understand the issue and resolve it without degrading their use of the machine.

So just in case they happen past, or for posterity (and mainly as I’m not in any sort of one up competition as I foul up too much to have a chance there..) it’s posted as someone with that model and issues might pick out the post in a google search. Then might use this site. Then might help other users out later by finding out what device type doesn’t work well with the setting or if it’s not that, maybe could tell us what the problem is.

 

 

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It seems that the OP went anonymous in most replies.  The problem seems to have been answered to the OP’s satisfaction in post #2425520.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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