Microsoft changes Win7/8.1 updates, pushes even harder for Windows 10

Topic

New Reply

I imagine that many here have seen this already but I will post it in case some have not.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3108405/microsoft-windows/microsoft-changes-win781-updates-pushes-even-harder-for-windows-10.html

Starting in October, patches will be cumulative and Win7/8.1 customers will effectively cede control of their PCs to Microsoft

I have to assume that MS has decided to “Show W7/8.1 users” their disdain for cheating them out of their 1 billion W10 installs ( sarcasm intended ).
There will be no more selecting good/bad updates, you will either accept all updates cumulatively ( Just like Win 10 ) or you can decide to not get any security updates anymore. The only “possible” work-around is selecting certain updates from the catalog site. We’ll have to wait and see how that plays out.
Thank goodness I have confidence in MS to not install any bad patches, they never have have they?:rolleyes:

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

Reply | Quote

Replies

…Thank goodness I have confidence in MS to not install any bad patches, they never have have they?…

C’mon mate. Micro$oft wouldn’t install bad patches :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Reply | Quote

I posted from a Computer World article, on this same issue!

Reply | Quote

I wondered about the “pushes even harder for Windows 10” part, until I realized it was Woody; no justification required!

Reply | Quote

I wondered about the “pushes even harder for Windows 10” part, until I realized it was Woody; no justification required!

Actually, I believe the point of Woody’s statement is that W7/8.1 consumers will lose the ability to bypass broken updates by MS so they might as well submit to W10 ( the good, the bad, and the ugly ) and accept the fact that if a bad patch comes out, your stuck with a computer that may not function.
I guess that MS is trying to build the economy back up by forcing “possibly” bad patches which in turn will force many consumers to either take their computer to a tech shop or buy a new computer ( which will probably have W10 on it ). I’m just tickled pink that MS is getting the economy going again and watching out for all us consumers who bought their product.
Kinda brings a tear to my eyes when I think about how MS is helping all of us out.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

Reply | Quote

Actually, I believe the point of Woody’s statement is that W7/8.1 consumers will lose the ability to bypass broken updates by MS so they might as well submit to W10 ( the good, the bad, and the ugly ) and accept the fact that if a bad patch comes out, your stuck with a computer that may not function.

Even more likely, IMHO, is that the poor suckers on whom the broken updates are inflicted will take their PC to a repair shop where the ‘fix’ will be a paid-for Win10 upgrade…
Kinda reduces any incentive for MS to ensure the updates actually work.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

Reply | Quote

I saw this being discussed before the AU and while I understand their motivation I have to disagree soundly with this decision. I’m keeping two Win7 computers as is because I use them for work and can ill afford some patch messing up something I rely on. And this has happened more than once in the past few years.

One big fear I have is that they will do as they have done with Win10 and make updates automatic and mandatory. At that point, I might have to put something in the firewall to block updates.

Reply | Quote

@BruceR

+1

--Joe

Reply | Quote

Actually I think that for quite a few years anything that Microsoft has released has ended up on Woody’s s**t list. New from Microsoft = bad as far as Woody is concerned.

--Joe

Reply | Quote

Actually I think that for quite a few years anything that Microsoft has released has ended up on Woody’s s**t list. New from Microsoft = bad as far as Woody is concerned.

I certainly understand your statement Joe and I also don’t think of Woody as a saint/savior in his feelings about MS BUT he also brings up a number of their flaws and what I see as disdain for the consumers that still have until 2020 and 2023 respectfully of using an OS that they bought in good faith. Woody isn’t the only author that thinks that what MS is doing isn’t “Kosher” for the consumer.
As Woody said in the article, you either accept the cumulative updates or you quit patching, which seems like an honest “Opinion” to me of MS’s decision.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

Reply | Quote

To me, Woody is just a regular guy who doesn’t feel he has to repeat the party line. He says things that others won’t say.

Your best bet in getting the whole story is to follow Woody and lots of others. In this way, you will have less chance of bias filtering out some information.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

Reply | Quote

Woody has written guide books on all the latest MS OS’s including a 1000 page guide on Win 10. He points out the good points as well as the bad, and gives a lot of good advice in his books and his website.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

Reply | Quote

Don’t forget that it was Woody who gave us Windows Secrets Forums (originally known as Woody’s Lounge).

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

Reply | Quote

Don’t forget that it was Woody who gave us Windows Secrets Forums (originally known as Woody’s Lounge).

Don’t forget that this is the Microsoft that gave us XP :)…

Sorry, Jim, couldn’t help it :). Yes, I am just trolling, I will take a quick exit now :).

Reply | Quote

Don’t forget that this is the Microsoft that gave us XP :)…

Sorry, Jim, couldn’t help it :). Yes, I am just trolling, I will take a quick exit now :).

I actually really liked XP, once they got to version B.

In fact, I have used and liked every version of Windows from 3.1 forward (except for ME – I never used it), up until 7. IMHO, things went downhill after that.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

Reply | Quote

Here is why I think this sort of thing is a load of bull feathers…

I’m still using Office 2010 Home and Student on my Win7 and Win10 computers. I don’t need anything newer and the programs haven’t really been updated much since then despite two new named versions. This version does not come with Outlook, which is OK because I’ve never used it.

This afternoon, my Win10 computer announced that there was a new update pending. I looked and found it was “Definition Update for Microsoft Office 2010 (KB3115475)”. No explanation so I looked it up online and find it is, “August 2, 2016, update for Outlook 2010 Junk Email Filter (KB3115475) ” Why on earth is it wasting time trying to install an update for a program I don’t even have? Is this really the best Microsoft can do when it comes to delivering needed updates? Is it any wonder that people are concerned about not being able to see what’s in all those updates and decide if they want them or not.

Reply | Quote

I’m planning to upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7 Ultimate. Does it worth ?

Reply | Quote

I’m planning to upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7 Ultimate. Does it worth ?

IMHO, at this stage of the game, I would wait until some more of the flaws have been worked out.
You are going to get many opinions pro and con so it still comes down to what you finally decide is best for your situation. Good luck

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

Reply | Quote

I’m gonna stick with my Windows 7 Ultimate for now.

Reply | Quote

Graham,

Whatever your issues are with Office 2010 updates on your Win 10 PC, they aren’t relevant to this discussion – which concerns what MS proposes to do with updates to Windows 7 & 8/8.1.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

Reply | Quote

Whatever your issues are with Office 2010 updates on your Win 10 PC, they aren’t relevant to this discussion – which concerns what MS proposes to do with updates to Windows 7 & 8/8.1.

I beg to differ. Microsoft delivers updates to Microsoft products right along with updates to Windows. I have frequently noted that update sometimes does a really lousy job of deciding what does and does not need updating. On several occasions, I have seen updates for things I neither have nor want show up.

This is going to include updates to things like .NET and Visual C++ Redistributable and other similar items that are used by non-Microsoft programs. There is a history of problems with these updates in Win7. In Win7, now, I can choose not to get an update to Office. But in Win10 I can’t make that choice and soon that same situation will exist in Win7.

Here’s another example:
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//177188-Todays-updates-did-it-again-but-worse

Reply | Quote

I beg to differ. Microsoft delivers updates to Microsoft products right along with updates to Windows.

Only if you configure it to do so. Please pay attention to what is being discussed: monthly security and reliability rollup patches for Windows, plus a .NET Framework monthly rollup. Nothing Microsoft has published suggests this model is being extended to Office, etc. or that other, optional, Windows updates are involved.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

Reply | Quote

Only if you configure it to do so. Please pay attention to what is being discussed: monthly security and reliability rollup patches for Windows, plus a .NET Framework monthly rollup. Nothing Microsoft has published suggests this model is being extended to Office, etc. or that other, optional, Windows updates are involved.

http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//177181-Microsoft-to-end-decades-old-pick-a-patch-practice-in-Windows-7
If you look at the referenced links in here, you will see that:

Customers who receive patches and bug fixes via Windows Update — the consumer-grade maintenance service — will automatically get the security/non-security cumulative update; they will not have a choice.

The writing is on the wall, MS is moving everything, piece by piece, to the new update model. Your ability to choose what you do and don’t update is slowly but surely being removed.

Reply | Quote

The writing is on the wall, MS is moving everything, piece by piece, to the new update model. Your ability to choose what you do and don’t update is slowly but surely being removed.

Again, all you’re link does is confirm what I have said. It give no support for your ‘writing is on the wall’ claim about MS ‘moving everything’. Now that that’s settled, how about we get back to the subject matter of this thread… If you want to make a comment or seek advice on something other than the Windows 7 & 8/8.1 update changes, start a thread of your own.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

Reply | Quote

The experience with Office updates is relevant to Windows updates because it suggests that Miscrosoft can’t do a good job of determining just which updates are relevant to a particular computer. And based on comments about the various “slow update” problems, perhaps also it can’t figure out the optimal order to apply a series of updates. There are components of Windows that will vary from one computer to another, such as which flavours of the Net framework are installed. Can the Microsoft update process figure out what should be installed on a given computer? More importantly, does it matter if something irrelevant is installed?
I appreciate that the reason this is difficult for MS is that Windows is an open architecture, which is what we like about it compared to Apple’s offerings. The fact that it’s open means that there are an infinite number of different configurations. With the new update model, Microsoft’s response seems to be moving towards an Apple model of restricting users’ control.

Reply | Quote

I am sure that one of the updates will eventually be the Win10 upgrade that lots of people are avoiding.

I suspect this is also being done to combat systems that may be dual booted (multiple bootable partitons as supported for years by MS code). A new (forced) update could be a patch that checks for dual boot configurations and looks for more than one Windows OS that is capable of running (wherby such items may be deleted).

There may be contractual challenges here because these may be not the conditions under which paid versions of Win7 and Win8 were acquired.

My workstation, circa 1999, does not qualify for a Win10 install (lack of video driver for Win10). I suppose this qualifies under their “get a new PC” directive. This old workstation is just fine. I own it and MS should not control it.

Reply | Quote

I have several computers, upgraded from Vista without Win10 driver support, so hopefully Win10 will never be forced on me. In the Windows Update area there is a Win10 item that I have ignored, because of driver issues. I don’t plan on a new machine for a long time and I also have machines running XP that can’t get to Win7. I see no need to upgrade until there is a real reason. I actually still run Word2007 just fine with various patches and it still gets updates. I have never liked newer versions of Word and actually would rather use Word6 except it has no ability to read newer file formats.

Reply | Quote