There’s a whole bunch of updates in Computerworld Woody on Windows
[See the full post at: Patch Tuesday is rolling out]
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Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it. |
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Patch Tuesday is rolling out
- This topic has 111 replies, 28 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago.
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AKB2000003 has been updated for Group B Security-only patches
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Seeing same on FF 57 and IE even after flushing cache. If logged in everything seems to work albeit slow.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I’m also using Firefox and can see nothing after 8th November unless I log in. Then, and only then, do I get sight of more recent posts. But there is a delay of several minutes between clicking on anything and being able to see comments or enter text. The process is extremely cumbersome at the moment.
“Yes, that means Microsoft is actively supporting seven different versions of Windows”
I remember all too clearly when the first version of Windows was introduced, and my local specialist software/engineer shop told me “This is great, it means that every single developer and user will be running the same operating system and it will make things so much easier for everyone”!
Ah well, how was he to know….?
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Anyone else using GP to enforce CBB (deferred) feature updates on their system? Today I just saw a massive number of Win 10 Pro version 1703 installs that were set to stay on the deferred update (formerly known as CBB) get 1709 – across two client systems. It’s just been a month since that was released . . . so much for a four month breathing space?
~ Group "Weekend" ~
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More details: all 1703 systems that were under WSUS are fine (and most of them won’t see updates until this coming Friday due to our odd custom schedule.)
All (and I mean ALL) 1703 systems today, even with correct Group Policy settings enforced, that were NOT under a WSUS system have picked up and installed (or attempted to install) the 1709 feature update.
Test systems that had CBB set, but also had the defer updates set for 60 or more days, did NOT update today.
Test systems where we used WUShowHide to hide/defer the 1709 update have ALSO attempted to upgrade to 1709 today.
MS has apparently greatly shorted the wait time for (formerly known as CBB) from 4 months to 1 month. I do not yet know if this was an accident, or intentional.
~ Group "Weekend" ~
Hi!
I just got pushed 1709 just after installing kb4048954. Despite running Windows 10 Pro and switched it to Business Branch. Obviously there is something very wrong with the latest KB, because it happened on all systems here. Some failed comepletely as expected. That’s why the upgrade was deferred after all. It will be a very long night after this nasty surprise. The idea is that we restore an image and quickly set a much longer delay for feature updates. And hope this works. Incredible what a mess Microsoft makes of Win 10, I am extremely angry!
greetings,
Ron.
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Restore your images with that machine offline, set the longer feature update deferral, then you should be good to reconnect. As of today we’re using the max setting allowed now (365 days), hope it holds!
From a newly re-imaged Win 10 Pro 1703 (that failed an upgrade today to 1709):
~ Group "Weekend" ~
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My educated guess is that this was not an accident. “Microsoft recommends” at https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-info.aspx now shows that v1709 is recommended! I believe that Microsoft is now purposely blurring the distinction between what was formerly Current Branch and Current Branch for Business. I’m not surprised that Microsoft did this, but I would have thought that Microsoft would have given prominent notice beforehand (or did they?)
I noticed recently that this happens when I am not logged in to this site.
So am I. Using Chrome.
My hard drive failed a couple of weeks ago. IMO it was the September IE11 cumulative update that killed it. Got a laptop with Windows 10. Apparently DSL is not good for Windows 10. Actually hated Windows 10 period. Returned it.
Brought my desktop in and replaced the hard drive and reloaded windows 7. They said they loaded all the windows update. Well, they didn’t. So dealing with that. Thinking of going to group A via PKCano’s directions. What a mess at the moment.
When this computer fails, going to buy a chromebook.1 user thanked author for this post.
From The November 2017 Security Update Review: “None of the CVEs are listed as being under active attack, but one of the advisories certainly looks as though it may be even though it’s not stated.”
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It is better to wait a while longer before installing 1709
But we are seeing reports of forced upgrades in spite of settings and wushowhide.
If you are successful deferring it, let us know what you did.1 user thanked author for this post.
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They fixed the “sfc” side effect issue that was introduced in October Preview Rollup KB4041686
https://www.askwoody.com/2017/big-problems-with-win7-preview-of-monthly-rollup-kb4041686/
thanks Woody for helping 🙂
and yes, the fix for excel jet database thing is included
From .NET Framework November 2017 Security and Quality Rollup: “This release contains no new security updates. The most recent .NET security updates were shipped with the September 2017 Security and Quality Rollup.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
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A comment in that blog post from Microsoft employee Rich Lander (my bolding):
“Great questions. This situation is due to us having quality fixes every month but not always security fixes. Our original plan was to only ever ship on patch Tuesday if we had security fixes to ship. This approach has a few bad characteristics: we ship on an uneven and unpredictable cadence, hold back quality fixes and then ship a lot of quality fixes at once when we have a security fix. We then decided to switch to this new model where we shipped every month with whatever fixes we had. In terms of supercedence, we opted for a more nuanced model, security would supersede security and quality-only would supersede quality-only. We believed that this approach was best because it enabled folks to skip the quality-only releases if they wanted to. If you read the compliance guidance in the post (a new section this month), you can see that it is addressing this situation.
October was our first month releasing quality-only fixes on Patch Tuesday. We heard some similar feedback after that. We added the new compliance guidance section to help mitigate the feedback.
We have the following choices available: go back to the old model (only ship when we have security fixes), use this new model (nuanced supercedence), update the new model to supercede independent of whether there is security fixes, or change the name of the rollup in the case that it doesn’t contain security fixes.
If those choices, we are most hesitant to go back to the old model. We need a monthly channel for shipping critical quality and reliability fixes. And for a variety of reasons, Patch Tuesday is that day/channel.
Note that this situation doesn’t apply to Windows 10, which is also described in the post.“
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I posted about this somewhere at this site maybe 4 months ago that a then-recent comment from a Microsoft employee in a Microsoft blog post indicated that this was maybe a year away from happening. So maybe mid-2018 would be a good estimate.
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@Mr.Brian: I managed to get rid of “it”, however the “thank” function actually showed the “thanks” FIVE times because it would not show itself and I continued to attempt to get it to do its job!
Then I went to “enter reader view”, and now the 5 “thanks” have disappeared and the “reply” function is working. Something I’ve never seen all of the years I’ve been coming here – – – FIVE “thank yous”!! Of course it is well deserved! 🙂 🙂
OH, OH, It’s back once again!!!!
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“I posted about this somewhere at this site maybe 4 months ago that a then-recent comment from a Microsoft employee in a Microsoft blog post indicated that this was maybe a year away from happening. So maybe mid-2018 would be a good estimate.”
Reference: Comment from Microsoft employee Andrei Stoica.
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I previously interpreted the statement in Andrei Stoica’s comment “We are planning to add these previously shipped patches over the next year […]” as being from Andrei Stoica, but I now see that that is not the case. Andrei Stoica’s original statement is: “A: The build & release of a cumulative update has been postponed […]”
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Anyone noticed the fact that this month’s edition of MSRT came flagged as important but not checked as usual?
Or is it just me? Running W7 x64 Pro here… – anonymous
It’s not just you. I’m also running W7 x64 Pro and I’m seeing the same thing. MRT is flagged as important but not checked.
I noticed another weird thing – the optional .NET updates for both October (KB4043766) and November (KB4049016) are being offered to me. I didn’t install KB4043766 because it contained no security updates, and apparently the same is true for KB4049016. However, I thought the .NET roll-ups were cumulative. If that’s the case, shouldn’t KB4043766 have dropped off Windows Update when KB4049016 became available?
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The .NET Rollup contains patches for multiple versions of .NET. If you look it up in the MS catalog, you will see multiple patches with different KB numbers offered when you download.
If I recall, in Oct, .NET 4.7 had a security component but the other versions did not. But a Rollup is a Rollup, so even if your version has no update, the Rollup is offered because some version has an update.Or something like that 🙂
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The reason is because according to the catalog the November update doesn’t metadata-supersede the October update (at least for Windows 7 x64); I don’t know why it doesn’t. However, you likely don’t need to install the October update if you install the November update because the October update is probably component-superseded after installation of the November update. Background info: The different types of Windows update supersedence.
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The reason is because according to the catalog the November update doesn’t metadata-supersede the October update (at least for Windows 7 x64); I don’t know why it doesn’t. However, you likely don’t need to install the October update if you install the November update because the October update is probably component-superseded after installation of the November update. Background info: The different types of Windows update supersedence. – MrBrian
Thanks.
I went ahead and installed the month-old 2017-10 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET (KB4043766) to get myself relatively current. I’m not going to install any 2017-11 patches until Woody gives the all clear.
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A comment from a Microsoft employee at https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/11/14/net-framework-november-2017-security-and-quality-rollup/ indicates that the November .NET update ought to metadata-supersede the October .NET update, and that Microsoft will make this change.
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The MSRT thing and it’s flagging seems strange. I noticed, it was flagged as important, but unchecked. Then readers commented, that during the first update checks, the MSRT update has been checked. Obviously MS got aware of install issues, and they unchecked this update.
I’ve documented it within my blog post Issues with Microsoft’s November 2017 Updates.
Ex Microsoft Windows (Insider) MVP, Microsoft Answers Community Moderator, Blogger, Book author
https://www.borncity.com/win/
On my Win 7 and 8.1 test virtual machines, which always get updates first for testing and which are kept up to date Group A (with a few exceptions) style, I saw the following:
For Win 7 I saw 2 important updates and 2 optional updates.
Important, checked: KB4048957 2017-11 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Windows 7 for x64
Important. unchecked: KB890830 Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 – November 2017
Optional, unchecked: KB4049018 2017-11 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET Framework
Optional, unchecked: KB2952664 Update for Windows 7 for x64 (checks for Win 10 compatibility)
I hid KB2952664 (for about the hundredth time) and installed the rest. So far everything has gone smoothly and the system is running fine. I still need to do detailed testing.
Update, one day after
My Windows 7 test VM, updated as above, has passed all my tests. And after most of a day of uptime it didn’t show any signs of memory or handle leaks. And Microsoft Security Essentials has updated itself successfully as of a little while ago.
Note that my testing for Win 7 covers it being used in the role I need – primarily a small business server and running the specific software I use on it, not an interactive system that’s run a lot by a user sitting at the console. Thus in my testing I only touched on such things as internet usage (though it appears to run IE fine; I saw no new basic UI problems with IE this month).
Update, two days after
Still no problems.
-Noel
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I had very nearly the same story with my Win 8.1 test VM as with Win 7…
I hid KB2976978 and installed the rest. It went smoothly and rebooted without faults. Detailed testing has to be done next.
Update:
Passed all my Win 8.1 tests.
-Noel
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It runs tests on your system to let Microsoft know if you’re ready to upgrade to Windows 10, then – if you haven’t opted out of the Customer Experience Improvement Program – it lets Microsoft know whether your system is compatible.
That’s what the update documentation implies anyway. That they feel it necessary to state “There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update” tells us LOTS of people are already blocking this one. I can tell you that doing so hasn’t hurt my operations a bit.
If you have no intention of upgrading your machine to Windows 10, why should Microsoft be handed any information about whether your system is compatible? Why should you spare even one extra CPU cycle for them (not to mention put extra stress on your hardware) to help them know if your system has what it takes for an operating system you may not even want. If they had never released software that caused CPU meltdowns I might never think this way.
Even if you ARE anticipating ultimately giving in, are there other computers like yours in the world? If you didn’t build it up from obscure parts, chances are there are PLENTY of others out there. Don’t worry that Microsoft won’t know your system exists and will make different decisions if your system does not participate.
-Noel
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If you have no intention of upgrading your machine to Windows 10, why should Microsoft be handed any information about whether your system is compatible? Why should you spare even one extra CPU cycle for them (not to mention put extra stress on your hardware) to help them know if your system has what it takes for an operating system you may not even want.
I actually installed it on my computer to let them know I have a system perfectly capable of taking Windows 10, but I have no intention to do so :). My last experience with 1709 was quite terrifying. After all the laugh at Linux and need to use Terminal now we’re in XXI century, have a system that GUI is designed to be used with touchscreens, but you can’t do much without using PowerShell and typing in commands like:
to reinstall an app. This is a JOKE. Having installed Ubuntu 17.04 and Windows 1709 I have to say for a typical office user Ubuntu is a much more friendly space out-of-the-box.
Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider1 user thanked author for this post.
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So i manualy installed net framework 4.7.1 from microsoft and this fix my problem. Again both net services work.
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Wow. Windows 8.1 had one less vulnerability this month than Windows 7. I find that kind of surprising.
Why? It’s actually (a bit) more advanced than 7 under the covers, and since it’s not getting feature changes, they’ve had quite a while to patch up the initial problems they released with it.
Windows 8.1 is actually a VERY good system, once you configure, tweak, and augment around the several big problems (such as using Classic Shell for a Start Menu, shunning all Apps, etc.). I base my business on it (and 7).
-Noel
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Woody’s initial post was updated to include a link to Microsoft forces Win10 1703 customers onto 1709, and other Patch Tuesday shenanigans.
? says:
homepage was stuck here for a few days on ie11 and ff56.0…
side note for xp people, install kb4047206 ie8 update from the catalog first. it is chock full of the speed-up goodness, then turn on update for kb4047211-win search dos, kb4048968-win EOT font engine, kb4048970- win 32k.sys, and ?kb4050795 a fix for an October patch (kb4042007) in the jet DB engine (msexcl40.dll) when opening excel.xls files. huh?
i’m going to wait for the green light to update the win7’s
thanks all
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“Keeping XP updated” sounds, to me, like a great AKB article….
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The November 2017 patch day brought some users some nasty surprises. Beside the MSRT thing mentioned above, we have the:
- Epson dot matrix printers killed (briefly mentioned two posts above)
- HP’s 3D Guard won’t work after KB4048955 for Windows 10 Version 1709
I’ve documented it within my blog post Issues with Microsoft’s November 2017 Updates.
Addendum: It seems that Microsoft has released a new version of MSRT, that has been fixed.
Ex Microsoft Windows (Insider) MVP, Microsoft Answers Community Moderator, Blogger, Book author
https://www.borncity.com/win/
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The November 2017 patch day brought some users some nasty surprises. – gborn
My employer started rolling out the November patches on Wednesday 11/15 and they wreaked havoc.
My own experience is that once I installed the November Security and Quality Roll-up for Windows 7 32-bit, it messed up my Windows Update and Microsoft Office 2010.
Specifically, no further patches would install after the November Windows roll-up was installed. I ran the Windows Update troubleshooter and it said the “Service Registration was missing or corrupt” and also reported another error. After I followed these directions from Microsoft, Windows Update seemed to be working again.
I scanned again for updates and recorded the KB numbers for what I had yet to install. There was one Microsoft Excel security update, one Microsoft Word security update, and MRT. I downloaded all three manually from Microsoft’s web site. I managed to get MRT installed, but the two Office updates still refused to install. I check the logs and they both said “fatal error”. I tried running a repair of Microsoft Office, and about two-thirds in, the repair started throwing up errors about being unable to write to the registry. I kept clicking the “Ignore” button just so it would finish.
In other areas of the company there were reports of Outlook crashing repeatedly after installing the Windows roll-up. When I called the help desk to report I needed help getting these two Office patches installed, there was a recording saying something like, “If you are calling about the Outlook issue, we are aware of it and are looking into it.”
Thankfully, in all other respects, my Office installation seems to be working normally. However, I have run a repair before, and never encountered those error messages until now.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Just installed the group B patches on Win 7 Ultimate 32-bit (KB4048960 and KB4047206), didn’t install the .NET one, since it’s listed as only recommended, everything seems fine so far, started up fine, no unusual errors or warnings in event logs, security software seems fine, very old TV tuner and its software still work, system fans operate normally (twice before updates for some reason made my system unable to dynamically adjust fan speed anymore, reboots didn’t help, full shutdown and start back up did the 2nd time, first time it was a BIOS update since one was available, but no idea whether that actually did something in itself)…
One thing I noticed though was that when I checked for updates with Windows Update, I had no November MSRT, just the October one still there (forgot when I last installed one… must have been when I saw a post on here that it started acting up).
Here’s another glitch for you. KB4048960 (Security-only update) for Windows 7 hosed my Windows Media Player. Specifically, WMP 12. Once the patch installed, all existing shortcuts I had on my desktop and in my start menu were automatically deleted. When I then clicked on the program exe itself [C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Media Player\] it relaunched WMP like it was brand spanking new. Any customized settings, and any library files links I had associated with it, were history.
All I can say is — thank goodness for System Restore!
So as it is, if I update my system with this latest Windows security patch, I lose my customized Media Player settings and my WMP library. Conversely, if I forgo the KB4048960 update to prevent this very thing, my system basically goes “unprotected”. So what now Microsoft??
If anyone finds a workaround to this latest patch snafu, kindly post it!
[Windows 7 Ultimate x64]
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Anyone know if the same thing happens with the monthly rollup?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Is there any effective way to report these kinds of bugs to Microsoft? How do such things even get brought to their attention? Knowing good ol’ MS, I can only imagine the kinds of hoops one would have to jump through to get their attention, if it can be done at all.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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You could try reporting via “Was this information helpful?” at the bottom of KB articles. After you click “yes” or “no,” textbox “Tell us what we can do to improve the article” appears.
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@Mr.Brian:
I thought we were “already” Beta Testers – – – IF WE WEREN’T very, very careful. 🙁 🙁
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DISASTER … W7-64 Grp A / (2) 2010 Office, (1) Word, (1) Excel, MSRT, Sec Quality Rollup … 1st Time have had to Macrium Image OUT of a WU. Everything sluggish or Spinning Circles after the Update; Files Slow to open, CCleaner slow to show if any SR’s were loaded (all of mine disappear), WU SR I tried just kept Cycling, etc.
YOU may have no issues. Thanks Macrium.
W10 Pro 22H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / Macrium Pd vX / GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU = 0
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So sorry you had problems. But you must want to be a Microsoft Guinea Pig.
We are on DEFCON-2. Patches have only been out for 3 days. Why are you running Windows Update now? The whole purpose of the DEFCON system is to WAIT until you know what’s good and what’s not.
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Probably due to site issues, and not your fault.
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W7-64 GRP A ….. 1st Time I’ve had to Macrium Image Back OUT of WU.
Everything Sluggish / Quirky after Update, SR wouldn’t even work ….
Thanks, Macrium. YOUR experience may be fine. I’m on IE 11 (rarity) as FF 57 (like it, easy transition for this amateur) was TOO Buggy on this Forum and Submit did nothing. Hope this works.
I edited this with FF 57 as it now seems OK on the Forum.
W10 Pro 22H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / Macrium Pd vX / GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU = 0
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Does anyone know the answer to the following question: Where do we stand with this month’s unchecked MSRT in windows update?
As indicated by @gborn on Nov. 16, in message #145848, one of the issues with the November Updates is that the MSRT is unchecked in windows update. In that same message he updated the information with the following Addendum: “It seems that Microsoft has released a new version of MSRT, that has been fixed.”
The problem is, the MSRT in my windows update still remains unchecked with the original release date of 11/14/17. The Microsoft Update Catalog MSRT download still shows the original 11/14/17 date as well.
Does the fact that the MSRT remains unchecked mean that it hasn’t been fixed, or is it just another Microsoft oversight?
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I think it’s best to assume that it hasn’t been fixed. When I installed the November Microsoft updates, I didn’t install that update.
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The Belarc Advisor has been updated to version 8.6 – https://www.belarc.com/products_belarc_advisor.
For the “Group B” Win 7 & 8.1 boxes that I’ve run it on, it correctly identified the missing updates as the November 2017 Security Only Quality Update and the November 2017 IE 11 Cumulative Security Update.
5 new updates today so far:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4049068 (not documented yet; probably time zone change)
November 27, 2017—KB4051033 (OS Build 14393.1914)
November 27, 2017—KB4051034 (Preview of Monthly Rollup)
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Another update: KB4051963 (OS Build 16299.96) (not documented yet)
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