Paul Thurrott on that fabulous new Win10 Start menu, currently in testing

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  Paul Thurrott nailed it again. Talking about the minor tweaks in the Start menu that were released yesterday in the beta Fast Ring, er, Insider
[See the full post at: Paul Thurrott on that fabulous new Win10 Start menu, currently in testing]

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Elly, lurks about

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Do people really use the Start menu all that much?  I have the main programs pinned to the task bar and everything else that I regularly use as desktop icons.  I use the Start menu maybe once a week, if that.

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Yes. I even still use Classic Shell.

Depends how many programs you have! If you do nothing but web browse & use office, of course you can pin a few.

If you have several programming environments, diagnostics packages, settings tweaking apps, games etc, good luck pinning all that or having a clean desktop!

I have my Start Menu set up like good old XP. Start > Programs, then folders categorised by use:

Security Tools (Antivirus / malware, scanners, cleaners etc)
DVD Tools
Backup Tools
Design Tools (Photoshop, etc)
Diagnostic Tools (Temperature monitors,
Webcam Tools
Printer Tools
Microsoft Office
Programming Tools
Misc Programs
Games

and so on.

People probably don’t use the Start Menu nowadays because it’s a disorganised mess, that requires searching for absolutely everything, and knowing the exact name of the program that you’re looking for.

Once again, mobile-based “app” menus & interface styles spoiling everything else.

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Elly, wdburt1, phaolo, Graham, ryegrass

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BobT wrote:

Yes. I even still use Classic Shell.

…

I have my Start Menu set up like good old XP. Start > Programs, then folders categorised by use:

At first, when I read that line, I thought of when I used XP (which was over ten years!), but then, I remembered that not everyone switched the menu to Classic style in XP.  The unnecessary removal of the Classic start menu was why I moved to Classic Shell back when I first migrated to Windows 7.  I kept using it when I moved to 8.1, and its successor, Open Shell, is on my Windows 10 setups, even though I don’t use them for anything other than testing purposes.

In my main OS, KDE Neon, I still use the closest thing to the Classic start menu, which for me is the KDE Application Menu (not the default Kickoff menu, but it is included with the base install).  It has the same cascading flyout menus that worked so well for me from 1995-2015.  I have too much stuff to have much patience for trying to scroll a menu constrained to a small corner of the screen!

I don’t always use the menu. Sometimes I just type the first few letters and grab it from the search results. It’s nice to have both.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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wdburt1

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[BobT]

It’s nice to have both.

This is exactly what Microsoft needs to get through their heads. STOP removing functionality. Instead offer a default environment, then let users choose the rest.

I still use W7 with Classic Shell, and also used it on W10. My work productivity increased substantially with having everything categorised. However anytime someone else sat with me at my desk & used the start menu, (or just if I felt like it, too!) all I had to do was middle-click the button and up popped the default menu, where I could type-search like everyone else.

Best of both worlds!

Now if Classic Shell can offer that, why can’t Microsoft?

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by BobT.

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wdburt1, Cybertooth, phaolo

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BobT wrote:

Now if Classic Shell can offer that, why can’t Microsoft?

I think a clue can be found in the removal of the classic start menu from Windows 7. When MS announced it was to be removed, lots of people asked them to keep it as an option, but MS told them that the classic start menu was more than a dozen years old, and it was time to move on.

That’s the wrong attitude.  It’s not time to move on if your customers still want it!  You should be listening to them, not telling them to move on.  Clearly, the classic start menu looked like the one in the by-then antiquated Windows 95, and MS didn’t want their new OS associated with something so uncool and dated. Branding!

Concern over branding is the same reason MS tried to block aftermarket Windows themes by requiring a MS signature on each one (the ones that used the compositor, aka “Aero” themes, even though many had no transparency effects).  It’s necessary to install a service to patch the theming DLLs in memory, or to patch them on the disk (only has to be done once), to install custom themes. At least MS chose to let that be rather than act to break the signature breakers.

MS doesn’t want to give people the best of both worlds or allow flexibility in things like the start menu because they want to use your PC to “model” Windows for others.  Even if it is your PC, it has to look like Windows, whatever that means at the moment, in order to comply with their branding efforts, and if that means forcing a theme with an intolerably bright background that can’t be changed or removing the start menu that you want to use (but that looks outdated, in Microsoft’s view), they’re more than willing.

The trend of MS using Windows to serve their own interests directly clearly did not start with 10.

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Elly, Cybertooth

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I have ***nothing*** on my desktop.

I have Nine items on my taskbar.

I have Seven items on the Start menu.

 

Mind you, I am blessed, for I am for the next few days, still using Win7HP.

Cheers

Chris

Unless you're in a hurry, just wait.

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I never use my desktop. The Start menu in Windows 10 is my go-to whenever I need to launch a program. I only keep Chrome and File Explorer pinned to my taskbar; everything else is accessed from the Start menu so it stays out of sight and is still there when I need it.

For me, I’m liking the change, because the coloured tiles are honestly a little jarring and haven’t aged well. Also, the inconsistencies with the coloured tiles grinds my gears a lot.

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I’m also blown away by the fanboi reaction to the Windows CoolSwitch – Alt+Tab – now cycling through tabs in Chredge.

Be still my beating heart. These are two of the new features we can expect in 2021.

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CTRL+TAB is working well for me at this moment. Sorry I missed this topic and created nearly similar in the rant forum. (another useful feature which everybody needed)

I found that at bleepingcomputer.com today

Dell Latitude 3420, Intel Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16GB RAM, W10 22H2 Enterprise

HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

PRUSA i3 MK3S+

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Who needs this stuff? Who needs this “functionality” and shiny new coat, when there are far more important issues?

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Seems like the biggest difference is that the icons (in both panels) are no longer enveloped in  blue squares. It looks less garish to me.

Still, the tile panel on the right continues to take up too much screen space, and the redesigned Start menu still lacks the useful (and more discreet) right panel of the Vista/7 Start menu.

OpenShell or StartIsBack have nothing to fear on my Win10 systems.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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bbearren, Lars220

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About the only difference I could tell is the new color scheme might be easier on older eyes. Something that should be an option already in the themes and should have been there from the start.

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No, it’s not easier. The font is smaller and much less readable. And I am not all THAT old.

-- rc primak

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At my first glance I thought it looked very similar to my wife’s Linux Mint 18 Mate desktop start menu on her laptop. However when I enlarged the image I noticed it was just the Mate default coloring of the tiles.

I like a combination of pinned to the taskbar, a start menu (as in Win7), and now the docks that I use in Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon.

I do prefer it over its Win10 predecessor, but it is not enough to draw me into the Win10 universe.

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[rc primak]

Based on your brief depiction, thanks for saving me the trouble of trying MATE in Linux. This sort of thing is why I stick with mainstream Ubuntu and suffer through the default Gnome3-Wayland Desktop Environment. At least I know I can customize the standard DE for myself. Definitely worth the effort vs. suffering through someone else’s idea of what DE elements I *should* like.

-- rc primak

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by rc primak.

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I have a pair of those older eyes and I think the before version looks much better to me, not to mention lots easier on these old eyes as well.

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rc primak

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Agree totally. Even better would be to ditch the whole Frankenstein’s Monster-Desktop altogether.

-- rc primak

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Cybertooth

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Just like the Apple device colour changes, its the change you have when you don’t have much else to change.

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rc primak, woody

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agoldhammer wrote:

Do people really use the Start menu all that much?  I have the main programs pinned to the task bar and everything else that I regularly use as desktop icons.  I use the Start menu maybe once a week, if that.

Well, I transitioned over from Mac, so I tend to keep my desktop clean and use this for programs I don’t use every day.

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rc primak

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Some people just can’t appreciate truly disruptive, earth-shaking, breakthrough innovation, that’s all.

Way to go, MS!

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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rc primak, Bill C., David F, Cybertooth, wavy

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I use classic shell start menu

https://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

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I’m in the same situation as “lanceboil” (fabulous name) – old mid 70s eyes.  I like contrast. It appears to me to be another useless unproductive change by MS staff who have nothing better to do.   MS aren’t the only culprits in this “lets change something ” scenairo. What happened to “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix (change ) it!?

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rc primak, Sueska, David F, Cybertooth

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And then there are all these “Dark Themes” everyone is pushing these days. I can’t use them at all. But I’ve read that young gamers love them and won’t “settle” for anything else. So I guess it’s the old guard slowly fading away.

-- rc primak

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We understand dark themes to mean light-colored text on a dark background. Bearing that in mind, I haven’t used a “dark theme” since the last time I turned off the amber monitor on my MS-DOS machine back around 1995.

Typing black text on a light background in MS Word immediately felt more natural. Don’t know about others, but in school I didn’t type white letters onto black paper.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Dark themes are meant to conserve batteries on mobile, laptops…. devices.

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OK, so I shouldn’t be worried about my seeing, I thought I was the only one not noticing any changes.

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[BobT]

WHAT, I’ve just seen what they’ve actually changed…

WHY do they keep going for this low-contrast “everything looks the same” look nowadays? With identifiable graphics & icons being replaced by “line” based versions that you can’t differentiate from eachother.

This goes against everything I ever learned in User Interface Design. Is it another mobile-focused thing? Can’t have actual “buttons” on touchscreens now, can we, since fat fingers just need to pat a random splodge of pixels..

But I’M NOT USING A ********* TOUCHSCREEN, I’M ON A PC. WHY CAN’T I HAVE MY PC WORK LIKE A PC?
(Well, I can, since I’m staying on 7 for now. Still though, arrrrrrrrrrrgh!)

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by BobT.

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rc primak, Charlie, Cybertooth

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In a word, YOUTH. Gamers specifically. They’re the ones driving these UI and theming changes.

-- rc primak

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not sure if I like that new Win10 start menu interface though

unrelated but Mr. Thurrott has this recent article of MS EVP Peggy Johnson leaving Microsoft:
https://www.thurrott.com/microsoft/237515/peggy-johnson-is-leaving-microsoft

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