Upgrading an Intel CPU…

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[a]

I had an i9-12900K which I rather liked but wondered (bored!) if I should upgrade.

I found a chart that compared the 13th and 14th gen i9-1x900K and they seemed almost identical. I couldn’t find a discounted 14th gen but I did find a i9-13900K for $280 so grabbed it (make sure who you buy from has a high rating and accepts returns!!!).

I just got it today – it came in a blue intel box correctly labeled, looked very clean. I put it in my ASUS z790-V Prime mobo and the power light just continuously flashed. I powered off and unplugged it and then shorted the CMOS but that made no difference. So I took it out, looked at it closely, looked at the socket, could see nothing wrong, so dropped it back in (Thermalright anti-bend bracket) and put the 212 back on and this time it worked perfectly – F5 in BIOS to get defaults, change memory from 4800 to 6000 (rating of sticks), and benched it. My Thermalright peerless Assassin 120 SE had showed up without mounting hardware (ebay seller was very good) (I should have that by Fri) so I’m stuck with 212 hsf. Ran Shadow of Tomb Raider Demo Benchmark (Steam) and after a minute it howled loudly so I hit Esc and that ended it. Way too hot! Other video intense like Superposition and 3DMark ran fine but clearly overheated it. NovaBench 5 showed a 25% (overall) or 37%(cpu) increase over my i9-12900K so I was pleased.

Make sure you have the latest BIOS for your board to get the latest 0129 etc microcode for these 13th and 14th gen cpus.

No idea why the new cpu failed the first time but I blame it on those poor mobo Intel socket contacts. Bad design imho.

imho you will need a much better cooler. I did a lot of research before choosing the TR P A 120 SE.

So there you have it. A little more Arctic Silver 5 used and an upgrade successfully partially (cooler) completed.

• This topic was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by a.

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TechTango, PL1

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a wrote:

I did find a i9-13900K for $280..Shadow of Tomb Raider Demo Benchmark (Steam) and after a minute it howled loudly so I hit Esc and that ended it. Way too hot!..

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/game-developer-claims-intel-is-selling-defective-cpus/

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@Alex5723 –

a wrote:

Make sure you have the latest BIOS for your board to get the latest 0129 etc microcode for these 13th and 14th gen cpus.

I added the bolding for emphasis.

You might want to carefully read a post before commenting on it. What you refer to in your post is probably why @krism posted what I just quoted…the well-publicized stability issues issue from this past summer that have been addressed by microcode updates from Intel, the last of which was released in August.

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a, Alex5723

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a wrote:

I put it in my ASUS z790-V Prime mobo and the power light just continuously flashed.

The flashing light means it is in the process of POST.  If it keeps flashing without completing POST, it found something that it isn’t stored in BIOS/UEFI.  You could likely have succeeded with not more than a few reboots.

bbearren wrote:

He had bought a 500GB Samsung SATA SSD a good while back, and it was still in the box, so we put that in. Boot failure, back to the start/stop/start/stop, no codes. Powered down, powered up, start/stop/start/stop, powered down, powered up, start/stop/start/stop, powered down, powered up, start/stop/start/stop. At least 5, maybe 6 times, then got an error message on a black screen, hinting about a hardware change. Y to boot into BIOS, X to reboot. We chose Y, got into BIOS/UEFI, then F10 and reboot. After all the power down/power up cycles, just going into and out of BIOS/UEFI was enough for it to finally get a full read on the new SSD firmware, and it booted into Windows.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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a

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Thanks – I’ll think about that next time.

Note: however, when I attempted to OC that board, it did that same flashing, pausing every 15 or 20 seconds to re-check, and then post after 8 tries if it can’t do it, which is most of the time. This was continuous w/o pause.

 

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Alex5723 wrote:

a wrote:

I did find a i9-13900K for $280..Shadow of Tomb Raider Demo Benchmark (Steam) and after a minute it howled loudly so I hit Esc and that ended it. Way too hot!..

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/game-developer-claims-intel-is-selling-defective-cpus/

Uh, DUH, the excessive heat is due to the 212 not being anywhere adequate for a 13th or 14th gen. Don’t know why you have to claim Intel making defective cpus.

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Bob99 wrote:

@Alex5723 –

a wrote:

Make sure you have the latest BIOS for your board to get the latest 0129 etc microcode for these 13th and 14th gen cpus.

I added the bolding for emphasis.

You might want to carefully read a post before commenting on it. What you refer to in your post is probably why @krism posted what I just quoted…the well-publicized stability issues issue from this past summer that have been addressed by microcode updates from Intel, the last of which was released in August.

I want to emphasize that if you lack that microcode, it is apparently (hearsay) quite possible to destroy your cpu.

My intent is to keep that i9-12900 lying around and use it when I get a new mobo – to boot it so I can update its BIOS. Before I then put the i9-13900 into it.

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Alex5723

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While the i9-12900K and i9-13900K both have the same 125W TDP, the i9-13900K has higher PL1 & PL2 thresholds.

i9-12900K Performance PL1 & PL2 = 241 W

i9-13900K Performance PL1 & PL2 = 253 W

That means the i9-13900K will draw up to 12 W more power when maxed out which is why it’s running so much hotter.

a wrote:

the excessive heat is due to the 212 not being anywhere adequate

You’re right! The specs for the 212 indicate it’s designed for 200 W TDP or less CPUs so it’s not really the right cooler for your CPU’s if they’re going to be running near their max power draw.

Better options would be either the Hyper 612 APEX or MA824 Stealth which are both rated for 260W TDP CPUs but, even then, if your CPUs are running near their PL1 & PL2 thresholds, even those would be bumping up against their cooling limits.

Might be time to consider an AIO water cooling solution?

FYI…

TDP = Thermal Design Power
PL1 = max long term power draw
PL2 = max short term boost power draw

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a, PL1, satrow

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a wrote:

Make sure you have the latest BIOS for your board to get the latest 0129 etc microcode for these 13th and 14th gen cpus.

Need the latest BIOS for laptops with HK CPUs, too.

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NOTE:

THis is Alex’s post. All posts here at Ask Woody are Alex’s posts. He/she feels the need to comment on anything and everything whether he/she knows anything about it. And gives us plentious links as if we don’t have enough to do – perhaps to swing us over to her/his side. But tons of words. A comment on anything. Mis-interpret, misread, mis-understand – NO MATTER, Alex has to get her/his stats up.

So I will ask of Alex: please, in the future, do not post anything to threads that I have started. I am only a tiny tiny percentage of AW and it won’t noticeably hurt your stats and others may actually get to read and think about something without your incessant slant.

Thank you.

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Just a kind reminder, the forum has a “mute” button that you can mute another poster. At the bottom of a poster’s comment is a feature that was added in a recent bbpress toolbox update. If you mute someone, you can remove the mute at a later time. We all need a reminder that we don’t have to respond to every post and we all may need time out every now and then.  Thank you.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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a

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Thanks. I did press that button but there is still a lot of the thread devoted to his/her mis-readings/mis-understandings, which dilutes the thread. I guess if I start a thread I could ask folks not to. That would be an interesting experiment! But there are so many here @bbearren , @PKCANNO (sp) , @PL1 , and many otherVERY knowledgeable folks here who have helped me tons and saved me tons of time………

Thanks Susan!

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PL1

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n0ads wrote:

While the i9-12900K and i9-13900K both have the same 125W TDP, the i9-13900K has higher PL1 & PL2 thresholds.

i9-12900K Performance PL1 & PL2 = 241 W

i9-13900K Performance PL1 & PL2 = 253 W

That means the i9-13900K will draw up to 12 W more power when maxed out which is why it’s running so much hotter.

a wrote:

the excessive heat is due to the 212 not being anywhere adequate

You’re right! The specs for the 212 indicate it’s designed for 200 W TDP or less CPUs so it’s not really the right cooler for your CPU’s if they’re going to be running near their max power draw.

Better options would be either the Hyper 612 APEX or MA824 Stealth which are both rated for 260W TDP CPUs but, even then, if your CPUs are running near their PL1 & PL2 thresholds, even those would be bumping up against their cooling limits.

Might be time to consider an AIO water cooling solution?

FYI…

TDP = Thermal Design Power
PL1 = max long term power draw
PL2 = max short term boost power draw

Just getting to this nice one – Yes, that is the technical reason why they are hotter!  And yes that lovely 212 that I have used almost all my life won’t remotely hack it. Early on after viewing a ton of others, I ran into this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGaEZjb5Ls&t=918s

Right or wrong, I bought a ThermalRight Peerless Assassin 120SE. It will be a few days before I get all the mounting parts and find out whether that test was trustworthy.

As to liquid cool, I wish I could remember how far back, I bought a Corsair self contained unit with I believe 2 120 fans on the radiator and tried top and side position on case but it seemed to react VERY slowly to any heat generated by the CPU(so I dumped it) – CoreTemp is what I rely on to tell me what the temp of all the cores is/are
This was long ago and likely an i5. I have used Arctic Silver 5 for decades. (though I just looked at recent tests yesterday and apparently there is a whole 1degC separating them all…)

So yes, if the TR PA 120 SE “fails”, I will be looking at the many comparative liquid cooled tests and decide.There is so much BS in so many of the YT tests that you need to be very careful. Also I have heard that you have to change the coolant every year, and others, possibly to sell product, say no. It’s a fun world and if you don’t have a good sense of humor when bopping through it you will be taking a lot of unnecessary pills!!!

I need to put a clarification here that although my mobo boasts an “AI Overclocking” label, I don’t, with the exception of the DRAM frequency setting which I set to 6000 since that is the “rating” of my mem sticks. (I had to lower it to 5800 with the i9-12900K as it balked a couple times. But I have no interest in OCing anything else. SO – running these video intensive things to test a cpu change may seem like folly, BUT – I am well aware that to run a gpu it takes a lot of cpu and this varries by app so I picked those 3 just for fun. The games I play are 20-30 years old and have been set up to use a lot of GPU but not much cpu, so they do not matter in testing.
Be well and have fun!!!

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a wrote:

Also I have heard that you have to change the coolant every year, and others, possibly to sell product, say no.

If it’s a self-contained AIO (All In One) unit, I can personally verify that it’s not necessary to ever change the coolant.

I’ve been running a Corsair H60 120mm AIO since November 2018 with an i7-9700K CPU and it’s worked great to keep my CPU cooled and is still going strong!

FYI, my CPU is overclocked to 4.9 GHz and draws 35 – 70 W of power depending on the workload.

While I don’t game, I do quite a bit of video processing (which is just about as demanding) and the Corsair keeps the CPU temps between 39° & 85°C (tJMax = 100°C).

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a

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VERY VERY NICE!!!!!!!! Huge thanks!!! Yes, there are a ton of folks on the web putting out rules who have little experience!!! Thanks!!!

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So which AFFORDABLE liquid cooler is the best iyho and is it really more than a degree C better than my (soon-to-be) TR P A 120 ?

I am looking at reviews and there’s very little difference in benefit.

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a wrote:

So which AFFORDABLE liquid cooler is the best iyho and is it really more than a degree C better than my (soon-to-be) TR P A 120 ?

That’s really hard to answer without info about your CPU temps.

Suggest you download/install HWinfo64, set it to auto-start with Windows, and then use it’s sensor panel to monitor your CPU temps over a few days.

It’ll show your minimum, maximum & average temps which will give you a good idea of how much heat a cooler will need to deal with. Then, to be safe, select one that can handle at least 15-20% beyond your max temp.

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LOL – I have HWINFO. That would be the “controlled/scientific” way to do it. If I were using a quantum processor (next week!!!) I would perhaps do something like that to ascertain the amount of LnOX I would need. But in reality, that would take way too much time. MBA: 80%. I tend to take a quick look at what reliable folks are demonstrating to be the best, mix that with an affordability matrix and done.

Repeatedly, on test results, I hear and see that the difference is really minuscule. On thermal paste, on air coolers, and on liquid coolers. There are of course some remarkably bad ones which can be easily avoided, but any one of the cluster is probably ok – even LnOX covers a multitude of errors in thinking…

Let’s say I want to take a chance on a liquid cooler and select less than ~$60 – It immediately seems that I have a choice of ~10 ThermalRight or Arctic brand coolers – just on the 1st amazon page. I could select one with the highest responst numbers and best ratings but on Amazon, those are, imho, sometimes VERY padded.

Also with HWINFO, by Murphy’s law, the day after I stop monitoring I would discover a new bench and run it.

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n0ads wrote:

If it’s a self-contained AIO (All In One) unit, I can personally verify that it’s not necessary to ever change the coolant.

Ditto here.  Six years, zero issues.

Desktop mobo Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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a

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same (Corsair) brand/model, or different? Thanks

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Thermalright Aqua Elite 240 white V3

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PL1

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Re: Liquid cooler.

a wrote:

same (Corsair) brand/model

Corsair, but I’m not sure of the model and don’t have a record.  Machine is 2018. Here’s an old pic but maybe you can I.D. the model.

 

Desktop mobo Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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a

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Thanks – I ordered a TR so I’ll see how it goes. Always trying!

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TechTango wrote:

Corsair, but I’m not sure of the model and don’t have a record.

If it’s a 240mm unit with dual fans, it’s most likely a Corsair Hydro H100i.

Just FYI, it’s been replaced with an updated version, the Corsair Hydro H100i v2 Extreme Performance.

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TechTango, a

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That number sounds vaguely familiar, I might have had an 80i if that’s a thing…
EDIT my pump head didn’t look anywhere as nice as that one, though…

EDIT might even have been as small as this…
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166985347667?_skw=corsair+aio+cooler+60&itmmeta=01JFFWJGY6W7WJ4YXSQBKPDNCH&hash=item26e11a3253:g:oHcAAOSwdrZm8EJR&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmnX%2BMztOeG%2FwZU59OzMTCjAO3MsNhNM9xPVK7I%2FAk3FGQzH43X9Tc8wV36%2Bca6mJdSaDQq6Pa6Khbu%2BwxWB%2BHNpPVwQJoIAqDE3sNLhjxmpgmdOi04IZu5jJnUvtu82wOHxGqvFq5uED3P857iXnJSWDDZAmYgd5xowd%2FExfyt8bGI9oBI7cQiFNUH8a–z%2BlftTvy88jTzfoN7UqlxuUnmi0RMJ1t2bcPYpXb5VYiktswbfF1isdVWhbE3QC%2FQ8stNT7jxdiMmLEhl5Rr0C3iViSBY%2FP%2BxJ3g5HDPcWQ0FA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMqo_K_Ptk

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Yes, there’s a such a thing as a Corsair H80i!

It was basically an H60 like the one I’m using with a thicker radiator (H60 = 25mm, H80i = 49mm) and a more powerful pump (H60 = 4200 RPM, H80i = 6000 RPM).

And like the older H100i, it’s been replaced with an updated version, the Corsair Hydro H80i v2 Extreme Performance.

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a

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Yes, I believe it looked like that. This was years ago. Just didn’t do the job for me. That was before I quit boxes and went laptops for a while. Now I’m back to a box – more fun playing with parts!!!

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a wrote:

Now I’m back to a box – more fun playing with parts!!!

This was my journey for the same reason!  That and four 27″ screens as 2 over 2 quad.

Desktop mobo Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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Yup – all about toys!!! whoa on the 2×2 screens!!!!!!!!!! Can’t match that! I do go liquid tomorrow, supposedly. Tough to put a bigger heatsink in a laptop!

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I did upgrade the mobo and cpu and cooling – real pain to get in there – have to put the 360 radiator in last. Had to take the GPU back out to put the M.2 in.
The squalling turned out to be my 850 CyberPower UPS. I’ll have to get a bigger one. No rush, though.
HWINFO seems to think 78 is about max – seems high for that cooler.
I put the i9-12900K in first so I could update the BIOS but when I took it off I didn’t really like the pattern so any suggestions/ideas (except Alex!) would be appreciated.

Took hours!!! But it’s done.
I’ll add the pics in a minute.

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krism, been following your rebuild thread.  It’s been very interesting & helpful.  I learned alot.

a wrote:

squalling turned out to be my 850 CyberPower UPS. I’ll have to get a bigger one.

I have a Cyberpower UPS and love it:

CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS Purchased Amazon 6/30/2016 – $139
Replaced the two sealed wet cell batteries in 2020 – $76

This unit powers:
Custom built desktop computer, four 27” 1080p monitors, an ATT gateway (fiber optic), and a cable modem (I have two ISPs), Linksys router, Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 with subwoofer, two powered external HDDs. This stuff draws an average of 160 watts.

The UPS gives me a power out full run time of 30 to 35 minutes. That’s plenty for a safe shut down. If left unattended, it will shut the computer off. Of course it’s also great protection from sudden short voltage drops.

Desktop mobo Asus TUF X299 Mark 1, CPU: Intel Core i7-7820X Skylake-X 8-Core 3.6 GHz, RAM: 32GB, GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4GB. Display: Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2 quad.

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a

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Absolutely correct and my next one will likely be a CyberPower as well. It’s my fault because I picked one for what I needed at the moment but then upgraded my cpu and it just wasn’t powerful enough for it. I need to think in terms of 1500. Long ago I had a 1000 CyberPower which lasted forever and which I loved. I just run my computer and monitor and a few little things like router and such. The lasers are separate and just on a stick protector. This little one came with a monitor screen so I could sit here and watch it go to 110%. It will get retired to the TV side of the room. The Klipsch are great but my vol controls went scratchy!

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+2 on Cyberpower UPS’s! I’ve had 3 of them since June 2015 without any major problems.

• SX650G for PC + VoIP phones
• CP425SLG for 24″ Monitor, Router, Printer, Scanner & NAS
• CP425SLG for 55″ TV and its accessories

The only issues I’ve ever encountered with any of them is:

I had to replace the SHR3.6-12 batteries in both CP425SLG’s when they finally gave up the ghost back in July 2022.

And, like you, when I upgraded my PC’s motherboard from a Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene w/Intel i7-6700K CPU (overclocked to 4.2 GHz) to a Asus Maximus XI Gene w/Intel i7-9700K CPU (overclocked to 4.9 GHz) I had to replace the CP425SLG I was using for the PC + VoIP phones with a SX650G due to the increased power draw of the i7-9700K.

BTW, while the AGM batteries used in UPS’s do have a pretty long lifespan, eventually (3-7 yrs depending on how they’re used) they will need to be replaced.

And regardless of what the UPS manufacturer may indicate, unless its a completely sealed unit (very rare), every UPS battery can be replaced!

So, when you finally need to replace one I’d suggest getting the replacement from either Battery Mart or High-Tech Battery Solutions. I’ve used both and they’re reliable sources with prices + shipping that are very reasonable compared to other sources.

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ABSOLUTELY!!! I’ve replaced the batteries at least 2 times on that old 1000 before it finally gave up the ghost. Batteries might only last 3 years depending on how many power hits you get, but are cheap and easily replaced for 3 or more years!!! Excellent point!!!

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IMHO way too much thermal compound, maybe some one could comment on this???

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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wavy wrote:

IMHO way too much thermal compound, maybe some one could comment on this???

YES – that’s been resolved by using a single 1mm wide strip down the middle – much nicer look – no change in temps!

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glad to hear that

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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