What to do about end of Windows 7 support

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Hi Loungers,

I’ve checked a few posts on this topic, but have found them a bit too detailed/technical for me, though certainly complete.

We run a 2 person business totally dependent on online access. We avoided the Windows 10 download because we did not have the time to learn a new OS or any desire to do so.

Now we know that support for Windows 7 ends soon. We are no more desirous of moving from it to Windows 10 for the same reasons. Actually, timing is even worse as we’re launching a new web site and product update in September. On top of that, both 2011 PC and laptop are in need of replacing and I’d like to keep Windows 7 on both of them, somehow.

Any advice?

With appreciation for any more knowledgeable input,

Linda

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JohnS1606, Tbass

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Linda: In my opinion, the very best solution to this is to find Windows 8 licenses and move to Windows 8.1. 8.1 is the current version of Windows 8, and it will be supported till January of 2023.

If you install Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

All of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1, and with Classic Shell installed and configured, you will hardly notice that you aren’t running Windows 7.

Having said that, the trick is to find legitimate licenses for Windows 8.1. Here are the alternatives:

* If you can find retail licenses for 8.1, they allow you to install Windows 8.1 on any computer, not just the one that it was originally installed on. They are hard to find, as Microsoft isn’t issuing them anymore.

* Perhaps some of your current computers have Windows 8.1 licenses, even though they are running Windows 7. Check the sticker on the computer to see if this is the case – if so, you have lucked out and can install Windows 8.1 for free on that computer, using the install key that is printed on the sticker. In this case, I suggest that you try to create a set of factory restore disks, then remove the hard drive and replace it with a new hard drive. Then do a clean install of Windows 8.1. Once 8.1 is completely installed and running, you can install the old drive as a 2nd drive, then copy all of your documents, pictures, etc., from the old drive to the new drive. Then reinstall all of your software on the new drive. Put the old drive in a static bag, and store it – it is a “full backup” of your old system. Before doing anything, be sure to get install codes for all of your software, so that you can reinstall (and reactivate) all of it. If that will be a problem, then you should simply do an “upgrade install” on your current Windows 7 drive. That won’t be as good as a clean install, but at least it will work.

* You can buy refurbished Windows 8.1 computers. Go to the following link to see some that look like really good buys:
https://www.dellrefurbished.com/desktop-computers?filter_hard_drive=46&filter_memory=81&filter_operating_system=209&filter_processor_brand=371
(I’ve never shopped at that site, so I don’t know about them from personal experience.)

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Lori, Chessie, JohnS1606, SueW, Tbass, Elly, Myst

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I got a Windows 8.1 laptop from the Dell refurbished site. It’s a great little machine – fast stable and a great price. Cosmetic grade of ‘A’ means you can just barely tell it was used. I would strongly recommend it. Check out the site every day (or more) since their stock can move rapidly and the pricing seems to change quite a bit. But with a little patience you can score a good deal.

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JohnS1606, SueW, Tbass, OscarCP, MrJimPhelps

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Linda:

I reread your post and realize that you want to replace your laptop and desktop computers with new computers.

Therefore, let’s make this real simple: You should definitely go to http://www.dellrefurbished.com (or a similar site) and buy a couple of good quality refurbished computers with Windows 8.1, then install Classic Shell on them to make them look and feel just like Windows 7.

(I think you’ll get the best quality stuff from dellrefurbished.com, that’s why I suggest going there.)

This is the best way for you to continue with “Windows 7” for a few more years.

Jim

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Chessie, JohnS1606, Tbass

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Buying a good refurbished machine with Windows 8.1 installed is very good advice, but one should make sure to get also all necessary information one might need in case it becomes necessary to reinstall Win 8.1.

There will be the usual hassles when moving to a new computer: bringing in the still useful data from the old machine, installing new versions of some applications, find that some applications no longer work with the new OS and looking around for alternatives, etc., etc. One extra hassle that, in fact, might be a good thing, longer term, would be to install Linux in dual-boot with Windows 8.1, and use it now and then to become gradually familiar with this new (to the user) OS . That means that, 3 years from now, it shall still be possible to continue using the computer without having to switch to whatever MS cares to label as “Windows” at that time. If that is too hard and tricky to do oneself, one could look around for helpful colleagues, friends, or relatives that have a track-record using Linux and are game enough to install it for you. I did that when installing Linux in dual-boot with Windows 7 in my old HP machine. The friend who did it for me is also a system administrator that has been working with Linux for donkey’ years. Just a thought.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Chessie, JohnS1606, Tbass

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The refurbished Dell that I bought had very clear and explicit instructions (in fact the instructions were one of the first things I saw when I opened the box) on how to make a usb drive to restore it to what they called factory condition. In this case the factory condition was basically just WIN 8.1 with only a couple Dell apps, one of which was Dell backup and recovery. The usual masses of Dell junk/bloatware were not present. So, with the factory recovery usb stick and suitable backup/imaging, I would think one would be in pretty good shape.

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b b, JohnS1606, Tbass

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A new machine means W10 IMO. This is the least technical / hassle you are going to get and a regular image backup will keep you up and running.

I’d buy one new machine with W10 to try. I think you will find it is easier to learn than you expected.

cheers, Paul

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Chessie, JohnS1606, Tbass

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IreneLinda, you mentioned replacing your Desktop and laptop since they are getting old.

MrPhelps has a good idea, and Paul has a suggestion of a new computer with 10.

I know people try and help, I do too, but it does gripe me that the OP said:
“…we did not have the time to learn a new OS or any desire to do so.”
No Time, No desire.

“Now we know that support for Windows 7 ends soon. We are no more desirous of moving from it to Windows 10 for the same reasons. ”
No desire to go to 10.

“…both 2011 PC and laptop are in need of replacing and I’d like to keep Windows 7 on both of them, somehow.”
Wants to keep Windows 7.

New Motherboards and CPUs will not work well with the blockade Microsoft has against the newest hardware. One forum said, “Windows 7 32 / 64-bit are only supported when using 6th Generation Intel Processors. So Kaby Lake and 7th Gen CPUs need Windows 10.” tomshardware

MrPhelps also said, February 8, 2017 at 12:31 pm, post #92572 “Last year I bought a new Haswell-based Dell computer with Windows 7 pro preloaded, to avoid the Skylake Windows 7 bug” https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/windows-7-support-on-new-pcs/

You can get a refurbished Windows 8.1 Dell with Classic Shell -now called “Open Shell”- and that is a good idea. But that is not what you asked for.

The only way you can have a new(er) computer and still have Windows 7 would be: a) Dell refurbished Windows 7, or b) have a computer tech or shop make you a new computer (desktop is easy) with new components that Windows 7 will operate on, using a 6th Generation Intel Processor. This gets into finding New Old-Stock parts laying around in service centers. It is not impossible and may be found on the web.

Going with an answer that you did not want, MrPhelps and Paul have reasonable ideas and you can put classic Shell now called Open Shell on a 8.1 or 10 machine. This *should* lessen your learning curve that you mentioned you did not want to undertake.

http://www.classicshell.net/
Note: As of December 2017, Classic Shell is no longer in active development.
Development has been picked up by volunteers on GitHub under the name Open Shell

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu/releases
– version 4.4.131, released this Sep 29, 2018.
https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/ OPEN SHELL Home Page

Whatever you decide, try to load up the PC with as much RAM as you can afford. This is what will keep you going for years or even a decade to come.

I (all of us here) have given you some options to consider.

I fully understand your want of a new computer with the older OS that we are accustomed to and prefer.

Let us know what you decide.

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Chessie, Elly, JohnS1606, SueW, satrow, Tbass

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I forget about Classic Shell for Windows 10. That would mostly (but not completely) eliminate the learning curve.

The only real complaints I have about Windows 10 is that the various versions aren’t supported for very long, whereas with Windows 8.1 you have more than three years of support remaining. Also, you have to be a bit of a geek to bring Windows 10 under control.

Linda said that she wanted to keep Windows 7, and she didn’t want it to be overly complicated, so my recommendation of good refurbished Windows 8.1 PCs with Classic Shell still stands.

Linda, if you need help configuring Classic Shell to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7, you know where to come for assistance.

As for memory, I agree that you should get as much as you can. 8 GB will do nicely, but if you can get more, that will help in those situations where a heavy demand is put on the computer, or when you are running a lot of stuff at the same time. Therefore, make sure that you get “64-bit” Windows, because “32-bit” Windows can’t use very much memory (it supports up to about 3.3.GB, which isn’t much in this day and time).

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Chessie, b b, JohnS1606, Tbass

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And the 3rd party program “OldNewExplorer” to replace the Explorer “ribbon” with the traditional “menu bar” with drop down menus?

I haven’t tried this with W10, but I use it with W8.1 to make it look more like W7.

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IreneLinda and MrPhelps, Anon #1929584 here.

MrPhelps said, “Linda said that she wanted to keep Windows 7, and she didn’t want it to be overly complicated, so my recommendation of good refurbished Windows 8.1 PCs with Classic Shell still stands.”

Agreed. You will be supported and not have all the Windows 10 garbage.

“Linda, if you need help configuring Classic Shell to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7, you know where to come for assistance.”

Agreed again. We all have varying ideas, and MrPhelps DOES have a good idea! He is also correct in that “Classic Shell” has issues with the newest Windows 10 because Microsoft keeps changing the game plan and Classic Shell always has to be tweaked by the developer to work properly again.

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Chessie, MrJimPhelps, JohnS1606

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[Vincenzo]

I’ve had non computer saavy people as well as senior citizens make the change from Win 7 to Win 10 and the learning curve is minimal to non-existant. For the start menu I delete the junk and add icons that they will use to either the taskbar or the homescreen.

What is the learning curve people are referring to here? maybe I am so used to it that I overlook it?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Vincenzo.

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Chessie, mledman, access-mdb

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V, that is a very good idea. I too have made it simple for grandma and grandpa by making desktop shortcuts and similar (taskbar) to make it a “click this to get your mail. click this to go to your website”. Those Shortcuts make life easy for them.

In that case, when only 2 or 3 shortcuts are clicked, it really does not matter what OS one uses.

I do believe people get use to the “look and feel” of an OS and when that changes, it is different. If they do any control panel or similar adjustments, an new OS is going to be different. Most grandma and grandpa users do not care about what is under the hood.

“We run a 2 person business totally dependent on online access.” IreneLinda has a business and they probably do much more than “Check Email and browse the web”.

My original reason for posting was they WANT Windows 7, they DO NOT want to go to 10. That is their choice and answers should reflect that desire. Give the answers to those questions, then give the other options that they didn’t seek but you could give a good case for, like MrPhelps did.

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anonymous wrote:

My original reason for posting was they WANT Windows 7, they DO NOT want to go to 10.

W7 is not an option on new hardware because the manufacturer does not provide drivers for W7. You could run Virtual Machine software on your new hardware and run W7 in the VM, but again, hardware drivers may not be available for the VM software.

cheers, Paul

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Chessie

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PaulT, you are right in saying new hardware would not be having the drivers for Windows 7. But IreneLinda did not specifically say they wanted a NEW computer, “…both 2011 PC and laptop are in need of replacing and I’d like to keep Windows 7 on both of them, somehow.”

I was answering her call. You mentioned a new PC = Windows 10. Yes, good point. MrPhelps said try a refurbished 8.1 with Classic Shell. That too is a reasonable statement But how many times must someone say I don’t want XXXXX? I am looking for a Chevrolet to buy, and the responses come back with Fords and Chryslers?

I gave a method to produce a NEW computer using older hardware that could be found by a technician on the internet that would run the older Intel processors, thereby allowing Windows 7. Otherwise a refurbished computer that has Windows 7 on it being a younger PC would work.

Thank you.

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Hi at last all you wonderful Loungers,

First, apologies for how long it’s taken me to get back to you, many of whom are Lounge friends of long duration. No excuse but the reason is finalizing and launching new site/product.

There is a huge wealth of ideas and rationale in your suggestions and I’m going to spend more time reviewing each of them.

My initial reaction is:

• There is going to be a learning curve no matter what the decision, not to mention the time always involved in setting up new computers.
• Maybe I might as well bite the bullet now and go with Windows 10 to keep Windows happy for longer than another 3 years.

That said, the Windows 8.1 idea appeals … but seems not as “un-techy” as I’d like. However, I know this Lounge is always here to help me through that!

I’ll post back with a decision once I’ve internalized ALL your great suggestions.

As always, posting here provides excellent learning as well as answers to questions.

Thanks again to all of you,

Linda

 

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Chessie

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I just saw this blog about Win7 end of support and what to do:

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-7-end-of-support-guide.html

every Win7 user should read everything on there

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SueW, anita.yk, Christa S, woody, Lars220, Kranium

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This is a great/must read & really contains all that needs to be said, and it’s also put quite simply. Particularly compelling is the look back on the XP EOL experience, and how that compares to what’s going on right now.

I fall into the following camp: Sticking with Win 7 until I decide it’s time to build an entirely new rig – which means 3 more years, at minimum. And I’m already tinkering with some dual-boot options.

Group B for WIN7 w/ ESU, plus trying out Linux builds in dual boot.

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Excellent article. See the main blog.

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Great article, EP. Thanks for linking to it. I found it super helpful, easy to read and very straightforward … no panic.

My decision is the same as Kranium’s: stick with Windows 7 until I have to replace the computer; then, go with 10.

I won’t get 3 years, however, as I am very short on RAM. If there were a way to upgrade the RAM in this 8 year old HP Pavilion – and if that made economic sense – I’d do that just to save the hassle new equipment/OS will cause for our small business.

In the meantime, the article EP linked to has eased my fears considerably! Thanks.

Linda

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IreneLinda: Have you searched the Web for information on the specs of your HP Pavillion PC? If the specs indicate “up to” more RAM that you have installed now in your PC (something easy to find with Windows 7 in “Control Panel/System”), then it might be possible to increase the memory by adding another memory module to the motherboard. You probably can get this module from HP, even if it is no longer easy to find by shopping around. A decent repair PC shop should be able to install the additional module for a reasonable price. Unless you can handle this hardware modification yourself, of course.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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IreneLinda

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I think I have found my platform when my W7 Ultimate 64bit EOL arrives … LINUX MINT is a pretty d*** cool looking platform that could help me “move into the Linux world” a d*** sight easier than I initially thought. What an absolute gem of a platform for any newbie to get started on, with tonnes of support, forums, tutorials – and it is all free too\open source. That’s my 10 cents toward what to do when W7 eols, cheers team ; >)

Please follow the –Lounge Rules– no personal attacks, no swearing,

If there is magic on this earth ... it's in the water.

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Hi Oscar,

Great idea and no, I haven’t checked to see if my PC can handle more RAM. I had an idea that the processor – being 11 years old – would not be up to it either. You can tell I’m not too knowledgeable about all things RAM!

That said, I will check out its specs and see what can be done. It would certainly be great if I could add RAM and not have to change my whole system right now!

Thanks for your input,

Linda

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Linda, if you can’t readily find the system info you need, the System Scanner at crucial.com (now owned by Micron) is safe and pretty good at identifying what you have and what could be installed.

Of course, they’re trying to sell you their RAM, but they’re not horribly priced, and you can always take the info and shop elsewhere.

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Hi OscarCP and JABeatty,

Thanks for your suggestions. I found the specs for my PC and here’s what I learned about its RAM capacity (article):

“Upgrade memory on HP Pavilion p6620f up to a maximum of 16GB
PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 240pin DIMM , with maximum 4GB per slot in 4 (2 banks of 2) memory slots. The HP Pavilion p6620f takes the PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 240pin DIMM Memory Type.”

So I guess the ADM processor can handle that much additional memory? Currently there are 6 GB.

Next decision is whether the computer is healthy enough, given its age. It has a fairly new HD I installed about 3 years ago as well as a new DVD player. The tower periodically makes sort of whirring noises, but they seem to have calmed down since I cleaned out the inside dust with canned air.

The extra memory seems fairly inexpensive, so I guess it could be worth giving it a try.

Any suggestions about how much extra RAM to try?

Thanks again … would never have thought about adding RAM without having to purchase a new system!

Linda

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IreneLinda: You are welcome. If my own experience is any guide and you have not noticed any serious indications of advanced-age infirmity in your PC, you should be able to add enough RAM to increase the memory up to the machine’s full 16 GB capacity, according to those specs. Your CPU should be the same as in those specs, and that one is supposed to be able to handle those 16 GB of memory. If you have any doubts about it, in Windows there is a built-in way to find out which CPU chip you have installed, but I don’t remember right now how that is done.

My own Windows 7 HP Pavilion laptop is almost 8.5 years old, still going strong (and now with Linux Mint in dual-boot with Windows) and the only thing I have ever had to replace has been the original battery, last year. I bought this laptop deliberately with 16 GB RAM and 750 GB hard disk, the maximum available at the time, to make it as unlikely as possible, for the whole of its useful life, that either choice would put a limit on its usefulness to me, given the way I needed (and still need) to use this computer.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Thank you again, Oscar. You have helped me decide to go for additional memory. Heck, with this Lounge’s and HP’s help, I may even try to add it to the motherboard myself! It would give me the memory I need and save me the time, hassle and expense of purchasing – and getting used to – a new Windows 10 computer.

As you could tell from the rest of this thread, I would be more than delighted to stick with Windows 7 and this computer as long as I can.

With appreciation,

Linda

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