Win10 usage up slightly, but Android’s rolling over

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Where have all the Windows 10 machines gone? Story coming in InfoWorld.
[See the full post at: Win10 usage up slightly, but Android’s rolling over]

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This is not a new phenomena. We have seen this with Vista and Windows 8. Machines sold with the latest (Win10 now) licences, but have Win7 installed and running. These machines were purchased to run Win7 and are not likely to ever see the licenced Win10 running in them.

Remember when MS finally admitted that Win8 was a total flop? So much a flop that the next version would skip 9 and go to Win10, and it would be totally different – it is not really.

CT

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Canadian Tech wrote:

This is not a new phenomena. We have seen this with Vista and Windows 8.

Indeed.  My laptop came with Windows Vista (it’s currently running Win 8.1 and Linux Mint 18.1).  When I ordered the laptop all those years ago, the vendor had a special promotion: buy now and you will get a free Windows XP driver CD with your purchase.  It was an actual manufacturer-branded CD specifically for this model.  That said it all, really.

I put XP on that laptop, and it remained that way for ~6-7 years, until it received Windows 7 (by that time, well into the 8.1 era).

Remember when MS finally admitted that Win8 was a total flop? So much a flop that the next version would skip 9 and go to Win10, and it would be totally different – it is not really.

Microsoft had crystal-clear information about what their customers wanted in the wake of the failure of Windows 8.  Had customer satisfaction been the goal, we would have gotten something that was a worthy successor to 7… but Microsoft was more into “OS vendor satisfaction,” so we got 10.

 

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XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
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You know, if they re-released Win7 and called it Win11, I might actually be willing to pay for it.  At the moment, EOL means the upcoming end of Windows for me.  Linux just works too well for me to put up with this.

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Ascaris, Bill C., Rock, Cybertooth, Microfix

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Linux works well here also, as well as W7 then followed closely by W8.1

I’d also buy W11 as per your comment

Edit: I used to tinker with linux distros and funny how things change, I now find myself tinkering with W7 & 8.1

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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I would be willing to pay for an extended-support version of Win7 (past 2020).

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Rock

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Where have all the Windows 10 machines gone?

Answer #1.? … Most corporations who have bought Win 7/8.1 Ent Volume Licenses since 2009 intended to use them for about 10 years until EOL in 2020/2023 = very cost-effective. Today or earlier(= 2017 or earlier), they may need to buy new OEM Business PCs as replacements for broken/faulty ones or for business expansion. To do so, the corporations buy new OEM Win 10 Pro Business PCs, downgrade them to Win 7/8.1 Pro and then convert them to Win 7/8.1 Ent thru their already paid-for Volume Licensing.

Consumers can also downgrade new OEM Win 10 Pro computers to Win 7/8.1 Pro but they must already have a Retail Win 7/8.1 license or Product Key. Not many consumers do so.

Answer #2.? … Some consumers who intend to use Linux because of the unsavouriness of Win 10 Home, have little choice but to buy the cheaper new OEM Win 10 Home computers and then replace Win 10 Home with Linux or dual-boot.

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No doubt both reasons contribute to the total… but that can’t be the whole story. (And Microsoft’s insistence on banning Win7 from newer machines makes it even more confusing.)

I still, for the life of me, can’t figure out what’s going on.

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I have a client that I am helping to buy a brand new Acer with a 6th gen processor with Win7 pro installed. It is selling for half price because of the WU problem with 6th gen.

In this case, it is a fantastic bargain because this client, like most of my clients has no intent of using WU.

CT

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…and you can still activate W10 Pro for free. Which is a 199 USD rebate added ;).

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“The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.” –Leia, aboard the Death Star

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RamRod, Rock

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@ woody

Where have all the Windows 10 machines gone?

According to http://www.worldometers.info/computers/ , there are about 2 billion plus computers in use in the world today.
. . 1% of 2 billion is 20 million. Win 10’s share for April 2017 increased by nearly 1%. So, most of the new 20 million OEM Win 10 computers sold every month remain as Win 10, ie they did not go anywhere.

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anonymous wrote:

here are about 2 billion plus computers in use in the world today.

Perhaps, but nowhere near 2 billion desktops. The NetMarketshare and StatCounter numbers only cover desktops.

At one point Microsoft claimed there were 1.4 billion Windows users. (Note: Not “monthly active devices” but “users”.) I haven’t heard that number in a long time.

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@ woody

According to https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 , Netmarketshare tracks Desktop OS market share. Desktop OS should include desktops and notebooks.
. . In comparison, Netmarketshare also tracks Mobile OS market share. Mobile OS should include smartphones and tablets, as per https://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Mobile

According to https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS42214417 , the about 20 million PC sold each month include desktops, notebooks and workstations.

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Answer #2a: Or buy older off lease refurbished PCs/Laptops and do the same thing. Lots of refurbed 3rd and 4th generation Intel PCs out there. Slip in an SSD, a bit more RAM, and the Linux flavor of your choice and off you go. Since many refurbs already have Win7-64 already on the HDD just save it or do the dual boot thing.

If a desktop you can do the disk swap caddy thing also.

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A great mystery, the data indicates 10 is not growing as much as one would expect from new sales. So what is happening is confusing. Remember most users do not have the knowledge or skills to personally replace 10 with something else. So one would expect them to use whatever was originally installed (10) not something else. The other data does not point to increased MacOS or Linux usage. It appears users are opting to replace 10 with 7 or 8.1 somehow.

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One thing which might explain Edge’s numbers is that with Windows 10, Edge is the default. Therefore, when people click on a link, it automatically goes to Edge; you have to take extra steps to use a different browser.

Another small factor would be IT professionals who are testing Edge, so that they will be familiar with it.

If you remove these two groups from the Edge numbers, the numbers are a lot smaller than 5%.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Where have all the Windows 10 machines gone?

… short time passing…

When will MS ever learn? When will MS e-ver learn?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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RamRod, SueW, Bill C., woody

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So Linux is on the increase, albeit Google’s version.

Good news or not for Linux? Microsoft Loves Linux :p

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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That is a good question.

I tried an Android 32-bit on a desktop about a year ago for a few days and it was not ready for prime time in my mind. However if Google would ever actively develop a 64-bit Android OS for PC, I suspect it would be a game changer, especially for laptops.

It could provide a true Windows alternative if it leveraged the Android phone experience without the forcing the simplified phone touch interface on the larger desktop monitor (al la Windows 8…) However, as I am not an Android phone user, I am not familiar with what is available for productivity suites, etc.

However with the more limited sphere of phone architectures and components, I wonder if an Android 64 distro would be as flexible as a typical Linux distro that address many combinations of components found in PCs.

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Let’s hope that Microsoft doesn’t love Linux like so many other things and companies that have been ‘loved’ by them in the past. Linus Torvalds and other open source advocates should be very mindful about love and sudden possible ebullient admiration from Microsoft.

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I have run Linux on a desktop and Android apps on a phone. Android is no Linux.

As for Google’s desktop OS plans, they seem to be concentrating on converging Android and ChromeOS. That’s their vision of a desktop OS.

If the Chrome Browser ever gets full access to Google Play apps, then Linux with Chrome would be the Google desktop OS of my choice.

 

-- rc primak

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RamRod, woody, BobbyB, ryegrass

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Thx for the “Giggle” inspired LOL
PS any way to make that Edge as opposed to the poor old Weary IE11

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I believe that is the icon for Edge.

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Indeed it is.

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I stand corrected young Mike from the GTA & Woody but a really good giggle nontheless, and an epitome of Edge

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You are absolutely correct! ?

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Sorry, that previous anonymous reply was from me… Didn’t realize I wasn’t logged in… Anyway, to reiterate, you are absolutely correct about the humour in this cartoon… And thanks for referring to me as young, though that’s only in relation to my mother who will be 93 soon… ?

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The evidence would seem to suggest that most of the people who have upgraded to Windows 10 did so because it was the shiny new toy and while it was (a) under a free offer and/or (b) forced on them unsuspectingly. That would also suggest that those who are now showing as new Windows 10 users are doing so as they’ve bought new machines with Windows 10 installed by default. I suspect that some of the latter are downgrading to Windows 7 or 8.1, with an insignificant number switching to Linux which is really only for tech-heads and non-gamers. Sorry guys, but the average computer user hasn’t even heard of Linux let alone has the ability or inclination to switch to it! If you doubt me, go on a non-technical forum and ask how many are aware of, or using, Linux. Most Linux users are running a dual Linux/Windows system anyway!

Linux isn’t going to play any significant role in the future roll-out of Windows 10. That will depend on the battle with Android on smaller devices, and what MS end up doing about the Windows OS on larger devices. Will they respond to market forces and extend the support life for Windows 7 (and possibly but less likely 8.1) or will they continue to bury their heads in the sand and insist (a) that all devices must have one common OS and (b) that OS will be Windows 10?

My suspicion is that MS will go for the latter option, and that when 2020 arrives most Windows 7 users will continue to run Windows 7 without support, just as XP and Vista users are doing only there will be one heck of a lot more of them! As for Windows 8.1 users, most will probably have switched to Windows 10 by then as it’s a smaller step for them to take.

Some might argue that these comments really only apply to home users, and that companies who are largely relying on IT departments/consultants won’t stick with an unsupported system but will switch to Windows 10 if they haven’t already done so. I just pose this question – how many businesses are still using XP ;)?

Interesting times…

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Karlston, Canadian Tech

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Seff, I think you are absolutely correct. I would be willing to be that come Jan 2020, there will still be hundreds of millions of Windows 7 systems running.

Most every one I know views their Windows 7 system as the last Windows PC they will ever own. I for one have bought my last Microsoft Windows PC. I expect to last as long as I want it to. Windows 7 is clearly the best Windows ever built and also the last one.

CT

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RamRod, Rock, Seff, wdburt1

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My plan for the future is to continue using whatever Windows I want, be it XP, 7, 8, or 10.

But unplugged from the net only.  That way I can still run all my bought and paid for software, store files on a NAS, or external USB drive, etc.

I will use Linux for all internet connectivity, to get downloads, or Windows application updates from there and then store them on my local shared storage.  Problem solved!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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@Seff & CT

Google’s Chrome dropped support for Win XP in 2016, ie 2 years after its EOL in 2014. Firefox has just dropped support for Win XP, ie in April 2017. Most other software have done the same.
. . So, using Win 7 after its EOL in 2020 will very likely be a dead-end street within 2 to 3 years after EOL.

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anonymous wrote:

Firefox has just dropped support for Win XP, ie in April 2017.

Firefox supports XP until September.

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@ radosuaf

Please refer to … https://venturebeat.com/2016/12/23/mozilla-will-support-firefox-for-windows-xp-and-vista-until-at-least-september-2017/
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/

Firefox ESR is not Firefox per se..

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True, but I don’t think current Win XP users are interested in any latest features.

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You mean less features…  Firefox and Chrome has been removing plug-in support for the mainstream releases.  Firefox ESR (32Bit) still has plug-in support.  Yep I heard it too, “plugins are not good for security blah blah blah”  Well, if it prevents one from doing their job and forcing them to use IE11 just to use Java to access a printer or the FedEx Ship Manager website how is that more secure?

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NoScript is an add-in for Firefox, and it is great for security — it blocks all scripts except for the ones you allow. I am truly amazed to see how much junk runs behind the scenes since I have installed NoScript. And it is a wonderful feeling to browse to a website and observe that it has enough functionality to run without all of the “google” and other scripts running in the background.

As far as JavaScript not running on a given website, if I tell NoScript to allow scripts to run for the website itself (e.g. mybank.com scripts, when I am at http://www.mybank.com), then JavaScript is no longer blocked for that website.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Take a look at uMatrix (same dev as uBlock Origin).  I replaced noscript with uMatrix last year because I find it offers more fine grained control of what I allow to run on a given site.

By default you can have uMatrix allow just first party scripts and all CSS & images, while stopping plugins and scripts from third parties.  This way most pages render OK initially.

I found noscript broke a lot of page rendering, and it took a lot of effort on each one to determine what script to allow.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/umatrix/

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Not JavaScript, Java the “write once run anywhere” language/run-time originally developed by Sun Micro Systems (now owned by Oracle) and accessed via a Plug-In in browsers.  It is used on lots of government and slow updating corporate (FedEx) web sites and many network printers (i.e. Lexmark/HP) and other embedded devices most of which will never be updated to something like HTML5.

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I uninstalled the Java web plugin long ago.

But it still possible to keep the Java runtime installed so that local Windows applications written in Java can run! 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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MS is counting on a blip this year from the new W10 Cloud Surface for the Education sector – Windows 10S or whatever they are going to call it. It is Cloud based (Chromebook like) – EdgeBook. I am not sure that kids are into Microsoft all that much. They are especially not into x32 applications.

It is supposed to be announced tomorrow. MS is late on this, but being a Surface might help sales.

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Yeah. Current tea leaf readings are for a “Surface” branded Win10 Cloud (or Win10 S) machine dropping in the morning, probably around $300. It’ll be upgradable, for a small fee, to “real” Win10. It’ll run x32 apps via Project Centennial.

I also expect to hear about “new” UWP versions of the Office apps – remains to be seen if they’re Centennial ports from the x32 version, but I’d be willing to bet that they are real WinRT “Metro” apps.

I also expect that Edge will be unveiled as the latest UWP app.

And I bet Joe Belfiore announces it.

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Hey, how’s that for timing.

Walking Cat has leaked the specs and shots, and Brad Sams covers the unveiling on Thurrot.com.

Looks like there’s no USB-C port. Let’s see what the morrow shall bring.

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While we can speculate…

Okay, that is a very mildly interesting looking actual product or mock-up image, which looks like an angular Apple Air with Surface product bits. I wonder if the Alcantara is fully retardant of stains and easy to clean. Maybe they won’t have battery problems with this computer.

The mouse doesn’t look impressive except for the possible reduction of materials used for its construction. I guess they might have some fancy dongles to sell for extra profit.

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woody

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There are new OEM Win 10 Home budget computers and budget Chromebooks going for about US$300 or less. If M$’s new Surface Cloudbook or OEM’s new Win 10 Cloudbook is priced similarly, very few schools and consumers will wanna buy it since it is restricted to Store apps only and Windows Store has few useful apps unlike the Chrome Store.
. . So, this will likely be another flop like Windows RT and Win 10 Mobile smartphones.

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I’d be willing to bet you’re right on all counts.

The biggest problem with Windows in schools is that it’s Windows!

Lipstick on a pig version.

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rc primak

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I wish schools had dual boot systems – Ubuntu + Windows.

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If schools want to do Ubuntu, they should drop all pretense of doing Windows. Linux would also be a better platform for teaching programming skills, as its code is entirely accessible. Kids will get exposed to all relevant OSes eventually, if not sooner.

-- rc primak

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Steam survey:

 

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Where is the survey?

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Click on the attachment

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That would be a perk of having an account here.

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anonymous wrote:

That would be a perk of having an account here.

As far as I can see, there aren’t any downsides to having an account here. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

-alice

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Of all the visible comments I haven’t seen any complaints, besides a people can edit themselves.

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Only 300 million active Windows 10 users as opposed to 400 million activations reported Aug 2016 by MS:

http://borncity.com/win/2017/05/05/how-many-users-working-with-windows-10-every-day/

 

BTW: kind of shows how much MS knows about W10 users, doesn’t it? This is how telemetry helps improving Windows.

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Well, I have activated W10 on six computers, rolled back four of them to W7, and the two that remain are dual-boot running W7 – the two W10 installs only run about once every month or so. That contributes about nothing to the W10 running stat. How many installs are in the category “installed it and dumped it”?

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