Linux Lite

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My old, lame computer did ok (but not great) with Linux Mint 18.2 32-bit xfce, and surfed the web ok (but not great) with the latest Firefox. I read a great review of Linux Lite, and so I decided to try it out.

I downloaded the 32-bit version of Linux Lite. I tried to make a Linux Lite DVD, but all I had were two scratched-up blank DVDs, and they didn’t work. So I installed Unetbootin, then used the Linux Lite .ISO file that I downloaded to create a bootable Linux Lite flash drive.

My computer had the removable drive ahead of the hard drive in the boot order, so I booted to the flash drive and chose Linux Lite from the Unetbootin menu. It ran really well from the flash drive, except for a couple of things: (1) I couldn’t create any user accounts while running off of the flash drive, and (2) Nothing was saved to the flash drive in the Linux Live session. (I thought it would be.)

I was able to access my shared drive, so I decided to install Linux Lite on the hard drive.

In short, this is a really great Linux distro if you have an old, lame computer. Things are surprisingly fast. And so far, no crashes! (Linux Mint occasionally crashed; Xubuntu often crashed.)

The one thing I can’t do is check for updates via the update program. I have to run the command via a Terminal session.

If you have an old computer that just isn’t up to speed, try Linux Lite. You can get it here: https://linuxliteos.com/

Update: Here are the specs on my computer:

EMachines W5243
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3800+
2 GB of RAM
238 GB hard drive

Originally came with Windows Vista.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer, geekdom

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One thought – I notice that Unetbootin does not have the ability to create a persistant storage partition on the flash drive as part of the creation of the live media. I wonder if you partitioned the USB thumbdrive first, could you then use the tool to install to one partition, and after the install use the OS to format and configure the other partition. For the utility I use, that is not possible as it wipes the thumbdrive first. However, the installer for Tails does have that capability to create an encrypted persistant storage area.

If you go to: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/what-is-persistent-linux/ and peruse the site, you can find other Live USB Creation applications. Unfortunately, many of the instructions on the site are dated, but with that info you may find help on the Linux distro site.

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MrJimPhelps

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Actually, Unetbootin DOES have the ability to create persistent storage. Look at the bottom of the window: you can specify how many MB you want the persistent storage to be.

I’m running the Linux version of Unetbootin, not the Windows version, so is it possible that the Windows version of Unetbootin doesn’t allow persistent storage? I doubt it, but I’ve never run the Windows version, so I can’t say for sure.

I have wondered how big you can make the persistent storage. I guess the best way to know that is to first make a flash drive without persistent storage, then look at how much room is being used by what you put on the flash drive. Subtract that amount from the total capacity of the flash drive, and you will know how big you can make the persistent storage.

I created two Linux Live flash drives, one with 3000 MB (3 GB) of persistent storage, and the other with 4000 MB of persistent storage. In both cases, Unetbootin told me that the install was successful. So apparently I was within space limitations with the persistent storage.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer, Elly

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? says: maybe this will work for you?

http://tuxtweaks.com/2014/03/create-linux-mint-persistent-live-usb/

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HiFlyer, MrJimPhelps

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What are the specs of this “old, lame computer”?

I have a 10 year old Asus EeePC 900HA netbook, Intel Atom N270 @ 1.6GHz, upgraded to 2GB ram and 120GB SSD. It was very slow with HDD and 1GB ram, but it’s pretty snappy with XP or almost any 32bit (x86) linux distro. Ubuntu and Mint both run acceptably well, be it Xfce, Mate, Cinnamon, etc.

Just curious how slow a computer would be to need Linux Lite.

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I apologize for the delay in answering your question.

Here are the specs on my “old, lame” computer:

EMachines W5243
AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3800+
2 GB of RAM
238 GB hard drive

Originally came with Windows Vista.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Thanks. Odd, on paper your CPU is faster than mine.

I miss XP, I still have it via dual boot with Xfce but it doesn’t go online. I have an old scanner and printer that work better than most new stuff but have no Linux drivers and no MS driver support past XP (my excuse and I’m sticking to it).

What are the official software repositories like for Linux Lite? I found Mint was lacking a bit compared to Ubuntu, but that was over a year ago…

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I haven’t delved too deeply into the Linux Lite software repository, but there is a list of available software, just like with Mint. Lite is based on Ubuntu, so there’s a lot of software available. But the “official” list shown in the Lite software installer program isn’t as extensive as the one in Mint.

Ubuntu software should work on Mint, because both are based on Debian.

As for your scanner, if it is a Canon scanner, you might check some of the Canon Asia websites to see if they have Linux software for your scanner. I went to the Canon Thailand website and found Linux Debian software for my printer and scanner. I carefully followed the install instructions for the scanner software, and now I can scan in Linux.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Schnarph

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Thanks again, and the scanner is indeed a Canon. The only way I know of to get it running in Windows 7 or higher is a software solution that costs about as much as a new scanner. I wouldn’t have thought to find a Linux solution on a Canon Thailand website, but knowing how proprietary MS can be it isn’t surprising. Open sourced solutions for the win!

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I had heard that Canon Asia had the Debian Linux software for my scanner, but I had to select a specific Asia site. I chose Thailand, because Woody‘s wife is from Thailand! I figured, what the heck, and lo and behold, I was successful in finding the software there!

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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If your machine is up to the task, that is, if you have enough memory (at least 4 GB, preferably more), then you may want to consider installing some virtual machine software, and then setting up a Windows XP virtual machine. It will be easier to access XP that way than doing it as a dual boot, because you won’t have to reboot everytime you want to access XP.

I use VMWare Workstation Player. If I was running it in Windows, I would have the ability to put an icon on my Windows desktop for any software that is installed in a VM, making it very easy to run software that is installed in the VM. In my case, I am running VMWare in Linux Mint, and that ability doesn’t exist with the Linux version of VMWare; so in my case, I have to open the Windows VM to run any software that I need Windows for. But it’s no big deal, because I hardly ever have to go into the VM.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I had very good luck with running a Windows XP VM in VirtualBox on a Linux PC.

Once that is set up, it is a simple matter to run any Windows dependent applications in the VM when needed, otherwise the native Linux apps are just fine for web or office use.  🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Elly

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Was that Oracle VirtualBox? I wonder if Oracle VirtualBox has lower memory requirements than VMWare Workstation Player?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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JohnW

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Oracle Virtualbox would be the full name.  I have also used VMWare player, and it works well, but I just prefer VirtualBox because it has no limitations and I like the feature set.  https://www.virtualbox.org/

I have never compared memory use between them, and I don’t have both installed at the moment to check.  But usage seems to vary based on how much memory I allocate to the guest OS.  Windows XP seems very responsive with 2GB RAM .

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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MrJimPhelps, Elly

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? says:

in this linux lite post “gold_finger” has a unetbootin recipie

https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/installing-linux-lite/(solved)-saving-settings/

i personally run ubuntu 14.05 and 16.04 LTS persistent and full install on 32 GB sandisk sticks. I haven’t messed with the squashfs file system on the live USB version (it can be decompressed) so i can’t update the kernel, yet

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I use Universal USB Installer from pendrivelinux.com to create Linux Live USB sticks with persistent storage:

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Bill C., HiFlyer, johnf, geekdom, MrJimPhelps, Elly

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Thanks for the handy-dandy installer. I’m in the process of installing Linux Lite on a USB stick now.

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Pendrive Universal USB Installer doesn’t install or run on a Linux machine! My machine is Linux Mint!

On the other hand, I found out how to get Unetbootin to create some persistent space on the Linux Live flash drive. The option is right there on the screen, but I didn’t see it before.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer

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MrJim: Thanks for the heads up on Linux Lite. I had debated on what package to use.

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MrJimPhelps

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Check out Puppy Linux.  I first gave it a try on my Dad’s ancient PC that was struggling with XP, and it worked.  🙂

It is a relatively small size ISO, will fit on a CD-ROM. and runs completely in RAM.

Versions based on Ubuntu or Slackware, 32 or 64-bit, UEFI or BIOS.

Home: http://puppylinux.com/index.html

Blog: http://blog.puppylinux.com/

Forum: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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HiFlyer

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Thanks for the tip.

I tried Puppy Linux several months ago. I wrote about my experience here:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/puppy-linux/

In short, my computer kept crashing with Puppy Linux. And I never could figure out how to install it on my hard drive so that I wouldn’t need to have the install DVD in the drive.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer

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I found that Puppy ran very well from RAM.  I never tried to fully install it to the hard drive.

There is an option that lets you store a settings file on a hard drive that lets you retain setup config and such between sessions.  I think that was the way it was designed to work best.

The Puppy forum probably contains answers to your question/concerns, etc.

But in the long run I would suggest at least getting a 2nd hand computer with the specs to run Linux Mint well.  Less fiddling, totally plug and play fully installed on the hard drive.  Very stable, and installs most drivers and apps that you need to get up and running out of the box, if you are connected to the net during install and let it download updates automatically.

The best Linux experience I ever had, overall!  🙂

And I started with Red Hat 9, many years ago!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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HiFlyer

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JohnW wrote:

But in the long run I would suggest at least getting a 2nd hand computer with the specs to run Linux Mint well. Less fiddling, totally plug and play fully installed on the hard drive. Very stable, and installs most drivers and apps that you need to get up and running out of the box, if you are connected to the net during install and let it download updates automatically.

That’s exactly what I have done. My main computer (a Dell “Haswell” computer, about 1.5 years old, with 4 GB of RAM and 1 TB hard drive) runs Linux Mint 18.2 64-bit xfce. But I needed an option for my old, lame computer so that I could keep using it, and Linux Lite 32-bit is running quite nicely on the old computer.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Thanks for the education of the persistance storage in your comment above above. I never saw that before.

I find that the off lease corporate refurbs are the best bang for the buck for a Linux box. I have a Microcenter near me and they often have name brands refurbs. When looking at the prices just add the cost of a new SSD and maybe a stick of RAM and Linux will fly.

For some reason many refurbs have dual channel memory but are saddled with only one stick.

The other thing I check is the power supply. It is enough for a discrete video card, and is it non-proprietary.

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Puppy Linux Xenialpup 7.5 was just released, ie in Jan 2018. That is about 2 years after the release of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS Xenial Xerus in April 2016.

The cons of Puppy Linux running from RAM;
1. Boot time in excess of 2 minutes. The “saved session” feature will increase this boot time as time went on.
2. No non-English language support.
3. Requires a tech-geek to run Puppy Linux.

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Linus Lite is a nice starter kit for seeing how things work and checking out various features. (Compared to Microsoft product it’s easy to use and check for programs and updates. There are no instructions to install on the alternate Thursday of each month, under a blue moon, while walking backward,  and whistling. There appears to be very little operating system overhead.)

However, I’m going to need a heavy-duty version of Linux with lots of available packages and assurance that the Linux version will not disappear over the next few years. What do you recommend?

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Any current 64-bit version of Linux Mint. I use the xfce version and I like it; I think Cinnamon is the most popular.

With Mint, you can install any Debian or Ubuntu software, and there are tons of free software for Debian, Ubuntu, and Mint.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer, geekdom

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Just pick one of these LTS ( Long term Support) releases of Linux Mint 18.  Good to go until April, 2021.  🙂

https://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php

Based on Debian and Ubuntu, so lots of support and compatible apps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint

“On January 3, 2018, the Linux Mint Team released news of the upcoming Linux Mint 19 code-named “Tara”. The team have stated that the 19.x releases will be using GTK 3.22, and will be based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS which will be supported until 2023. First release of the 19.x series is estimated to be released around May/June 2018.”

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Bill C., HiFlyer, geekdom, Purg2

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Linux Mint got tried today. It’s polished and I think I’ll stick with it. It will be installed initially on an external, portable hard drive; the dry run was on a flash drive.

Alternates to Windows system packages must be located, installed, and tested.

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HiFlyer, Elly

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Mint comes with Wine out of the box, so in some cases, you might be able to acceptably run some Windows software without needing to find a replacement. Mostly any software prior to 2000 should run okay in Wine, but I’ve gotten a number of W2K/XP era software running nicely on it before. Only way really is to do it as a case by case basis.

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I have tried Wine and Play on Linux.  In my experience, most Windows programs do not work well, and some only partially.  It is a hit or miss thing, with a lot of time spent troubleshooting and tweaking to find the right combination of versions that play well together, etc.

A few things do work well, so it’s not all bad.

If your hardware is up to virtualization specs, I would highly recommend using a Windows Virtual Machine on your Linux system to run Windows dependent applications.  They are much happier running on a compatible Windows OS.

I found it 500% easier to just install a Windows XP VM in VirtualBox.  Once that is up and running, it is just like Windows.  Well it is Windows, actually… 😉

But you can easily hop back and forth between your Linux desktop, and the Windows desktop with one click.  If you wish, you can set up shared folders to move files back and forth, or share a clipboard for cut and paste.  Even USB device pass-through is possible if you need to dedicate access to a USB device that only has Windows drivers.  🙂

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Elly

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I prefer to run Windows in a virtual machine within Linux than to run Windows apps with Wine within Linux. By keeping Windows in its own virtual machine, you are not mixing Windows vulnerabilities into your Linux desktop. In other words, you are keeping a clean separation between Windows and Linux. About the only thing you are sharing between the two is perhaps your hard drive.

And like you said, it’s a whole lot easier to simply run Windows in a virtual machine rather than try to configure Wine and Linux to run Windows programs.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer, Elly, geekdom, JohnW

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JohnW wrote:

If your hardware is up to virtualization specs, I would highly recommend using a Windows Virtual Machine on your Linux system to run Windows dependent applications

MrJimPhelps wrote:

I prefer to run Windows in a virtual machine within Linux

While I understand the rationale for your “run-Windows-apps-in-Windows-VM-on-GNU/Linux-PC” recommendation–and recognize that this solution would likely work quite well for a home user with a limited number of systems, any thoughts re use of this approach in an SMB environment?

Assuming these Windows VMs need to be:
activated like any other Windows OS installation (requiring license purchasing/management), and
updated like any other Windows OS installation (for security reasons if nothing else), and
upgraded like any other Windows OS installation (again, for security reasons, when then-current OS version (e.g., Win7) is EOL-ed),

wouldn’t broad use of this hybrid approach simply preserve the most putrid portions of the modern-day microsoft morass?

(er, sorry… meant to ask if widespread use of a Windows VM approach wouldn’t result in higher costs, decreased security, decreased stability, etc, largely preserving most of the negative factors that led us to seek a better solution in the first place? thx)

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I really don’t think that this hybrid VM approach is optimal for SMB or enterprise use.  But if a home user chooses to do so, and undertakes the learning curve, self support, and potential risks on themselves, it is a workable option.

I personally have over $1000 invested in Windows only applications that will not run on Linux, or any flavor of Wine.  If I use these VMs I can choose to not connect to the network and avoid the security risks of an end of life OS (XP, Vista, Win 7 in a few years, etc.), yet I can still operate them in a sandbox, so to speak.

Businesses need to decide individually on their application support roadmap.  Some may have to stay with Windows due to dependencies of their current workflow.

There are many options available for a business to go 100% native Linux, and that would be the recommended path for them.  Or stay with Microsoft…

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Anon – When talking about SMB and Windows applications, the two solutions that come to mind are Citrix ICA and Microsoft RemoteApp (connecting to using FreeRDP).

I’ve tried neither with Linux specifically but I know both options work well in a Windows environment.  FreeRDP says it supports RemoteApp and ICA has worked on Linux for decades, I believe.

Both solutions have their own problems (licensing cost, app licensing issues, bandwidth) but they’d offer central control and if the apps are uncommonly used it may save seating costs.  If you have, say, 10% of your employees that run some critical Windows application but the rest can be switched it may be easier to run in a hybrid environment.  Or run remote VMs that they can RDP into.

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I tried Wine briefly on a small, specialist program and then uninstalled Wine.  No work, no wine, no roses. Wine results and mileage and roses may vary.

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For the programs I have tried on Wine, I just got whine… my own.

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I’ve recently installed Linux Lite on my nearly 12 year old HP laptop (dv-5203tu) and I must say that so far I am very impressed, much faster than the laptop was with Windows XP and later, Windows 7.

The laptop originally came with 512MB of RAM and a 60GB spinner hard drive. Over the years I upgraded it to the maximum 2GB RAM and a solid state hard drive. Only use it for email, web browsing and the occasional document (my Epson printer works perfectly with Linux Lite as it does with Linux Mint on my main PC).

On a related note, I decided it was time for clean installs on my main PC a couple of weeks back. I now have Windows 7 and Linux Mint in a dual boot (on separate solid state drives). Windows 7 has been patched up until last December and it is now no longer allowed to access the Internet (Network Adapter disabled in Control Panel). All online activities are done with Linux Mint. I prefer this approach instead of using virtual machines – never seemed to have much success with those for some reason.

So happy to be off the Windows Update ‘treadmill’. I have better things to do with my time than playing that game, especially since the start of the Spectre/Meltdown fiasco.

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Capella, Elly

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Carl:

How do you do the dual boot? I also have separate Windows and Linux hard drives (in addition to my Windows VMs), and the way I do a dual boot is with a SATA power switch:

https://www.amazon.com/PW4101-Aluminum-Floppy-Control-Protection/dp/B009XPCL6Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1486066571&sr=1-1&keywords=sata+power+switch

I power down, switch off one drive and switch on the other, then power up.

I have a third hard drive which is always on; that one is used as my data drive for both Windows and Linux, as well as being a shared drive for all other computers in the house.

I have since learned that the company which sells my SATA switch has released a new version of the switch, and the new version has problems. This is really sad, because the switch I bought works like a champ.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I tried a dual boot setup with two hard drives, using the BIOS to select the active boot drive, and leaving both boot drives powered up.

It worked somewhat, but my BIOS got really confused, and I ended up having to power off the drive I wasn’t using, as the BIOS started refusing to detect the boot drives.  🙁

Your power switch solution sounds ideal for this purpose.  🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Jim,

I was originally going to install Linux Mint as a dual boot with Windows 7 on the same solid state drive (Samsung 840EVO 250GB). I already had Windows 7 installed and I intended to install Mint on the extra empty space (about 50GB) that I deliberately left at the end of the drive after the Windows partitions (Windows 7, Games, etc.)

The problem I had was that I still like to use Linux Mint 17.3 at the moment which is supported for another 12 months. But, I’m using a Kaby Lake processor and Mint 17.3 doesn’t recognize Kaby Lake enough to set up an automatic dual boot – i.e. no “Install Mint alongside Windows 7” option. I know I could probably do it manually with the “Something else” option but I couldn’t be bothered figuring it out at the time.

So, I unplugged the Windows 7 SSD (and my separate Data drive SSD – another Samsung 840EVO) and installed Mint 17.3 on the OCZ 120GB SSD I put into the tower just for Mint.

After installing Mint 17.3 I reconnected the Windows 7 and Data drives (after shutting down and turning the power off, of course) and then I had  to use the option in the BIOS to boot into the Windows or Linux SSD. I booted into Linux and did all of the updates which also included an update for the GRUB boot loader.

After finishing the updates and rebooting I now had the option to boot into Windows or Linux via GRUB – as long as the Linux SSD is set as the first boot drive in the BIOS options. If I select the Windows 7 SSD as the first boot drive, the computer boots directly into Windows 7. So I leave the Linux SSD as the first boot drive so I can just use GRUB and not have to go into the BIOS to select which drive to boot from.

What I like about this setup is that if I unplug either SSD, the PC will automatically boot into the other one which is handy in case one of the SSD’s fails (I have Macrium Reflect images of both Windows and Linux – Linux Mint can be imaged from within Windows) – and I have a couple of spare SSD’s so swapping out a failed SSD and restoring an image should be fairly quick and painless.

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Capella

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@ Carl D

AFAIK, 7th-gen Intel KabyLake processors require Linux kernel 4.10 or higher, which is normally not available for LM 17.3.

LM 17.3 comes with kernel 3.19 and can be upgraded to kernel 4.4 only. The Ukuu program can be used to upgrade to kernel 4.13.
___ LM 18.3 comes with kernel 4.10.

Some prefer LM 17.x over LM 18.x.
___ Nowadays, most OS vendors like to make changes just for change sake/’sick’ and/or to add some non-essential blink-blink into their scheduled twice-per-year or once-per-two-years upgrades. IOW, they like to fix what ain’t broken until it is broken.

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Carl D

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Running Linux kernel 4.10 on Mint 18.3, with 4.13 showing as available.  Using Mate 1.18 for the desktop.  Still on 3rd gen Intel though…

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Update on Linux Lite:

On the positive side: It is an absolute pleasure using Linux Lite. It makes my old, lame computer F A S T. And with my IBM Model-M (clicky) keyboard, it is a lot of fun using this computer.

On the negative side: For some reason, I can’t see my shared network drive from the Linux Lite computer. (When I had Mint on this computer, I could see and access the network drive with no problem.) Also, when I plug in a USB flash drive, it won’t mount; and the drive listing shows up, but it is grayed out. And I still can’t do updates by clicking on the update icon. However, I can run updates from a terminal session. In fact, updates run better and more completely on this computer and on my Linux Mint computer when I do it from a terminal session.

There are some people working with me on these issues on Linux Lite Forums, so I expect to get this solved soon. Meanwhile, if I want to share a file, I email it to myself. Not the best, but at least there’s a way to do it.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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geekdom, Elly

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Peripherals are nice, necessary. Thanks for the system reliability information and progress report.

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Linux, in all its forms, appears to be for do-it-yourselfers.

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online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Mint is ready for most people, in my opinion. There isn’t a lot of DIY knowledge required for Mint. The biggest part you need to figure out is how to get it on the computer in the first place.

I would say the same about Linux Lite if they could fix the problem I’m having using a USB flash drive.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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JohnW

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I’m locating and installing parallel software packages that reflect what I have under Windows operating system. Some parallel software packages function; others require additional components or tweaking.

Terminal commands must be learned.

WINE is not an option.

Windows 7 has a limited shelf life; I would prefer to move to Linux completely without Virtual Machine.

Linux machine will be stand-alone replacement for Windows operating system.

 

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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I think that is what I truly like best about Linux Mint.  It just works right out of the box.  Of course  you can still dive into command line if you wish, but the thing is you don’t have to.

I have been messing with Linux since the Red Hat Linux 9 days, and with Mint I can take off my geek glasses and just use the dang computer, instead of building it.  🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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MrJimPhelps

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It’s much cheaper to DIY than to hire a repairman to fix your windows, doors/locks, plumbing, electrical appliances, etc. This is the basic difference between Linux and Windows.

Enterprises pay and pay and pay $$$ to M$ to use Windows, whose Windows-related operating costs have to be eventually passed down to their customers. In the end, all of us pay for M$’s greed.

If all the enterprises use Linux for their business operations, things will become much cheaper.

A few ignorant users think that they get Windows for free when they bought or buy new OEM Windows computers, ie they think that the OEMs preinstalled Windows for them for free.

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@mrjimphelps:

MrJimPhelps wrote:

Carl: How do you do the dual boot? I also have separate Windows and Linux hard drives (in addition to my Windows VMs), and the way I do a dual boot is with a SATA power switch[…]

When installing Linux on a disk drive that already contains Windows, the Linux installer will offer to partition the drive and then install GRUB so that you can pick the OS that you want to boot into when you power up the computer. You also get the choice to overwrite the Windows installation if you want, but that’s not what we’re after here.

Here’s a guide to dual-booting Windows and Linux. (There are many other similar guides around the Web.) I recommend reading through the background materials linked to in the introduction.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Elly, MrJimPhelps

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Another update on Linux Lite:

I ran all updates from a Terminal session — they ran for a while, and all appeared to run successfully. (Still can’t run them from the update icon.)

Now I can see (and access) my shared drive from my Linux Lite computer! Apparently running all the updates did it, because that’s all I did before finding that I could now see the shared drive.

I still can’t use a USB flash drive – it won’t mount when I plug it in, and the listing is grayed out. Has to be some sort of permissions thing, because the drive is listed, although it is grayed out.

One additional thing: I use Firefox with NoScript. This means that some websites simply aren’t going to work, unless I turn off NoScript. So I like to have an alternate browser handy for those websites. Opera won’t install in Linux Lite; and I refuse to install Google Chrome (privacy concerns). I found and installed another browser (I can’t recall the name of it), and it worked well, but it wouldn’t work for some of the websites I tried to browse to with it. I’ll try Brave next.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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geekdom

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MrJimPhelps,

I too use NoScript, though my main browser is Waterfox, not Firefox proper.

If a site won’t wotk, it’s usually because one of the scripts it needs is being blocked (or if you are using the more powerful 5.x series of NoScript that does not work with Quantum, one of the other features could also be blocking it).  Sometimes it takes going through them one by one, enabling temporarily until you find the one or ones that does it.  When you enable one script and that one calls three more to test… it’s ever so much fun, in a “I’d rather get my foot run over by a steamroller” kind of way.

I don’t know how long you’ve been using NoScript, but it gets easier over time as you whitelist the sites that a lot of other sites use to function (generally the trackers and the sites that make things work are quite separate and distinct, making it easier for us). Temporarily whitelist for experimentation, then permanently allow the ones that make things work.

Alternately, you could simply temporarily allow them all to make a site work (you may have to do it more than once)… it’s less than idea with regard to security and privacy, but if you’re going to use another browser just because it doesn’t have any script blocking, it’s pretty much the same thing!

You could also have multiple browser profiles, and set Firefox to ask which to use at start time.

Other blocky things, like adblockers or Privacy Badger, can also make sites quit working, and trying to leave them all enabled at once while you track down a malfunction is a nightmare.

I used to work diligently to get a site to work… now, if I can’t get it working after a few minutes, I just leave.  No one site is usually important enough to make it worth the trouble to sort through a hundred scripts and try to get it working.  The sites that have that issue usually have been the ones that have “turn your adblocker off” blockers and tons of trackers… NoScript, ViolentMonkey, and uBlock Origin (the latter two with Reek’s Anti-Adblocker scripts) generally punch right through those ad blocker blockers without me even noticing their presence, but once I start messing around, they sometimes come back, and there’s no way I am going shields down on a site that wants to track me that badly.  That’s the kind of site I’d expect malvertising to come from… better just cut that one a wide berth, generally, if you can’t get it to work with your security enabled.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Ascaris wrote:

Temporarily whitelist for experimentation, then permanently allow the ones that make things work.

That often works. But as you said, sometimes that will cause other scripts to try to load, which means that you have to do it again.

I’m getting pretty good at deciding which scripts I want to block, such as anything that is Google-related or strictly an advertising script.

You could also have multiple browser profiles, and set Firefox to ask which to use at start time.

I need to check into this. It’s either this, or disable NoScript as needed. There are a few sites which are must-have for me, which I can’t browse with NoScript running; so it’s either disable NoScript or use another browser. I prefer simply to use another browser, so I don’t take a chance on “contaminating” Firefox in any way by allowing a rogue script to run.

It is truly shocking to see that Google scripts are running in the background (or at least trying to, in my case) at just about every website I visit. Google has their tentacles into everything, and they are vacuuming up as much information as they can, everywhere they can. Protecting myself from Google is one of the two main reasons I use NoScript; the other is that Firefox browses faster when scripts are blocked.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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As far as tracking scripts go, there is an easier way to stop them without breaking websites.

Take a look at Disconnect.  When I look at it while reading this page at ‘AskWoody’, I can see that it is blocking ‘googlesyndication.com’.  So yep, Google has its hands in everything!

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/disconnect/

Using the Disconnect ‘visualization mode’, here is what I get when I visit ‘cnn.com’.  The sites with the red strike-thoughs are being blocked.  These are all sites that the main http for CNN calls…  https://i.imgur.com/n4Eg5PT.png

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Something to consider when running a browser in Linux, is that your user agent reveals what browser and OS you are running.

So malware that attempts to scan your computer remotely will probably not bother with you if they are running a Windows exploit.  So any potential risks of running scripts in the browser are reduced.  in any case you are not vulnerable to Windows exploits, which are likely the majority of them.

Check your user agent here: https://www.whatismybrowser.com/detect/what-is-my-user-agent

I have found that uMatrix has become my go to script blocker lately for all browsers & OS platforms. By default it only allows first party scripts, so most pages generally render in a basic way, then you can tell in one glance what other elements are being blocked (the matrix).  For me, it sure beats playing ‘whack-a-mole’ for hours… 🙂

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/umatrix/?src=search

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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I borked enough of the Linux Mint system that I started over. Linux Mint is installed on an external hard drive and I needed more persistent space as well.

A much needed proprietary database has been converted (using computer gymnastics) to a spreadsheet file that can be used by LibreOffice.

Firefox is the browser of choice. Bookmarks were imported before I started over; they will be imported again. uBlock Origin add-on will be included again.

Terminal commands are the Linux equivalent of DOS commands. Search on web usually reveals such information as how to uninstall software using terminal command.

If I had to provide an analogy: Microsoft is Lego kit. Linux is Lego blocks.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Elly

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Update on Linux Lite:

Pros: Linux Lite is f a s t on my old computer, faster than any other OS I have ever run on this computer, except for Windows 8.0 32-bit, which is no longer supported by Microsoft.

Cons: I still can’t get a flash drive to mount on my computer. And sometimes I can access my shared drive, but most of the time I can’t. When I installed all updates from a Terminal session command line, I could access the shared drive for a while. Maybe I need to do that every now and then.

Conclusion: For an old computer that you need for surfing the web, typing a document, or other basic tasks, you won’t find a faster, more satisfying OS than Linux Lite. Libre Office works like a champ. Same for the latest Firefox. But if you need to move a file between this computer and another, you’ll have to either email it to yourself, or use something like Dropbox.

In a corporate setting, if you had some commercial grade networking software such as Novell, you likely wouldn’t have any file sharing issues. And flash drives being blocked might be a good thing — this makes for a more secure network. (Some companies block flash drives by design.)

Update: I opened a terminal window, plugged in my flash drive, and typed “lsusb” — this showed me information about my drives. Now my flash drive works! Not sure how to explain it, but I made note of the “lsusb” command for future reference!

Now I need to figure out why I can’t always access the shared drive.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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JohnW

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Wondering how Lite compares with Xubuntu.  I see that both are Ubuntu based with Xfce desktops.

I am using an Xubuntu VM on a Win10 PC with limited (4GB) RAM, and it seems to run fine if I give it about 1.5GB RAM to work with.  That leaves the host OS enough wiggle room in the remaining 2.5GB of the total 4GB physical RAM available.  Which is tough here because a Win 10 build seems to want about 2GB baseline for the OS and resident utilities like AV scanners, firewalls, etc.

Xubuntu is not the lightest distro out there, but I found it a decent compromise with footprint and features for my needs.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Jim,

maybe look in the boot log to see what is happening to your usb?

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Out of curiosity, I burned an iso of Linux Lite last night and tried to boot my PC with it.

I have booted many distros on this machine without issues, but this kept hanging up on the “feather” splash screen.  No idea what was wrong, but I suspect it ran into some hardware issue that it could not bypass.

So I tried another distro, called MX Linux, MX-17.1: https://mxlinux.org/

It booted right up.  It is Debian based and also Xfce desktop.  Looks nice!  Here’s a review:

“The performance is just phenomenal.”  🙂

Part 1  https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mx-17.html

Part 2  https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mx-17-lenovo.html

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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I’ll have to try MX-17 Linux. Thanks for the tip.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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JohnW

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Jim,

maybe try lsusb in the terminal, faster than going through logs.

from:

https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/hard-drives-and-ssd%27s/linux-lite-doesn%27t-see-my-usb-sticks/

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MrJimPhelps

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I plugged in my usb flash drive and typed “lsusb” in the terminal window. My flash drive now works!

I need to write that command down!

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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It’s great to hear that USB is working!  🙂

But that is a list command, and I would be skeptical that it actually had anything to do with enabling it.

Per the Debian wiki:  https://wiki.debian.org/lsusb

lsusb is a utility for displaying information about USB buses in the system and the devices connected to them.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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? says:

MrJimPhelps for the network problem:

https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/network/network-share-not-working/

and:

https://www.linuxliteos.com/manual/network.html

hope you get it working properly, i’m off to look at ntoskrnl.exe’s involvement in my latest win7 update  bsod. i guess i could have read the dump rather than just fixing it and moving on?

 

 

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anonymous wrote:

i’m off to look at ntoskrnl.exe’s involvement in my latest win7 update bsod.

I haven’t seen the pretext for this issue, but be aware that ntoskrnl.exe can end up being a catchall for all kinds of bad-behaving things running in the kernel namespace, like errant drivers.  I’ve had a couple of driver related bluescreens that presented as being “caused by” ntoskrnl.exe, even though the real cause was a driver.  I used Microsoft’s driver verifier to determine the real culprits, and after they were removed, there were no more problems.

Generally, and despite all the grief MS has gotten over the years for their supposed bad quality, very few of the crashes or bluescreens are actually because of Microsoft code.  However, with Windows Updates being as “iffy” as they have been recently, you never know.

Maybe you know all this, in which case, never mind!  Either way, good luck tracking it down, and I now return you to your regularly scheduled penguin programming.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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? says:

glad it worked! i love it when the machines keep humming along. the linuxliteos site seems to have useful experiential tips, not unlike here at the lounge. maybe try linuxlite on a stick?

https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/hard-drives-and-ssd%27s/linux-lite-3-6-will-not-recognize-usb-flah-on-four-computers/.

since the rapid decline of microsoft’s reliability over the last couple of years i’ve worked with tens and tails and my daily driver is ubuntu 16.04 LTS on usb

 

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Update: I have given up on Linux Lite. I got tired of sometimes being able to access the shared drive and sometimes not. That was the only problem I was having with it. Perhaps if I had some commercial-grade networking software (e.g. Novell), it wouldn’t have any networking issues.

I have now moved on to Ubuntu Mate 32-bit. I read that it is a lightweight Linux distro, so I thought I’d try it out. Although at first it stumbled when trying to access the shared drive, it is now accessing the shared drive with no problem. Perhaps an update fixed it?

I’ll post about my Ubuntu Mate experience after I have used it some. It took a while to install, but so far it is working fine.

Another distro I am considering is Elementary OS, which I will try out soon.

I believe my flash drive issues were caused by a bad flash drive. My 1.5 year old Dell computer seems more capable of handling a bad flash drive than my old eMachines computer. When I inserted a different flash drive into the old computer, the old computer recognized it immediately. (My 1.5 year old Dell was able to read the bad flash drive.)

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Elly

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I like the Mate desktop, and that is what I use in my Mint VM sessions, with Mint Mate.

Mint Cinnamon is a bit better looking, but is hungry for GPU acceleration, and I have had graphic issues with Cinnamon running as a VM.  I prefer the Mint distro, and since Mate is maintained by Mint, I would opt for that rather than the Ubuntu flavor.

But Mate is solid and about as light as I can get without opting for Xubuntu, or one of the other Xfce distros.

The MX 17.1 is the best Xfce distro I have tested recently, but still run Xubuntu in a VM session on my laptop.  I would say it is probably a bit lighter than Mate.

Since Mate is really a fork of the old Gnome 2 desktop, it is appealing to those that want a stable, conventional desktop.  Good for Windows refugees… 🙂

Decisions, decisions … 😉

https://distrowatch.com/

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Elly

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JohnW wrote:

I prefer the Mint distro, and since Mate is maintained by Mint, I would opt for that rather than the Ubuntu flavor.

Good point.

So far, watching videos on Ubuntu mate is S L O W — lots of buffering/pauses. That will be a deal breaker for me if it continues.

I have heard that Pixel Linux is very lightweight, and that it will work on very old computers. Pixel Linux is the Raspberry Pi OS, adapted to work on a PC. Currently it runs only as Linux Lite. I never could get it to work on my flash drive; but I believe the flash drive was defective, so I will try again with a different flash drive. Here’s their website, if anyone is interested: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pixel-pc-mac/

I’m also looking at Elementary OS. Here are a bunch of reviews of Elementary:
https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ratings&distro=elementary

Update: I tried Pixel Linux and Elementary OS. Pixel crashed my computer almost immediately; I installed Elementary OS and I really like it. Here is my post about Elementary OS:
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/elementary-os/

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Elly

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Just looked at your system hardware specs and puzzled why you are having performance issues with Linux.  Your specs seem to be capable of decent performance.

One question is, why are you running a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit capable processor?  You might not be taking full advantage of the capabilities of that hardware.  The driver support is probably more up to date in 64-bit.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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I guess because my machine has 2 GB of RAM – that is the max it will take.

I just installed Elementary OS (Linux) 64-bit, and it is running really well, so you may be onto something.

Thanks for the 64-bit tip. That may be the answer to all of my performance issues.

Update: here is my post about Elementary OS:
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/elementary-os/

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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? says:

Jim,

i hope you have a great experience with ubuntu mate. ubuntu 14.04LTS and 16.04LTS 64 bit seem work well. i’ve been using them without problem(s) since microsoft went south in the winx push. another thing you can easily do with ubuntu is download the windows updates to the desktop and open them in Archive manager and peer into just what is inside. i see a memory management file in KB4088878 that (probably) causes my old dell to bsod on restart… now to figure out how to strip out unwanted individual offending parts and pieces of the defective packages…

enjoy!

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Elly

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A:

Can you explain further how to look into what is in a Windows update? I’m guessing it’s not hard to open the update. But what will you see when you are looking at them? I’ll have to check into this this weekend, when I have a some time on my hands.

I really liked Linux Lite, except for the shared drive issue. That was the deal breaker for me. However, if someone had an old, lame computer that they didn’t need to access a shared drive from, Linux Lite would be a great OS for their computer.

Jim

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Elly

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? says:

Hi Jim,

sure, the kb download has several files (.cab) within, especially since the bundling of updates began. check the manifest list. i did not have to extract the files to look at/in the contents. i don’t remember the routine on a windows desktop, if i could see inside the .cab files, and i am always reluctant to open update files on a windows desktop, so on linux archive manager makes it easier for me to do. if you know file .extension(s) of interest you save yourself the googling time. For example with get win x push i learned the trap files like DiagTrack and thus avoided installing it\them. the KB listings from microsoft had\have the file manifests listed, which is what i used to do before the askwoody lounge & company made for safer/simpler updating. i love what ubuntu\linux offers, especially freedom from the current state of affairs that is microsoft. the only problem i’ve had with linux is a no (wifi) network connection after sleep, but a reboot takes under a minute and the wifi function is restored. small trade-off for me. the really great thing is if anything major were to go wrong, which has not yet occurred in two years of daily use, a wipe of the usb and re installation takes under 30 minutes. i know that there is backup and restore but as pertains to computing i’m a fan of the Great Karl Wallenda…

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I wonder if you could separate out the .CAB files and install them individually as desired? If so, this would get us back to the old way of doing updates — that is, installing only the ones you want, and avoiding problematic ones.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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? says:

Hi Jim,

Great question, perhaps MrBrian, Noel or one of the windows specialists could say. my guess is that their is a built in order of installation hierarchy that must be followed? i do see examples of folks writing\rewriting code within the KB updates, and inserting older driver versions to fix the missing functions that newer version cause; however such a proposition is way, way above my lowly pay grade. i’m in the boat that is waiting for something coming down the Microsoft Update chute that works to protect\enhance my os rather than BSODinging it. meanwhile i’ve learned enough Linux to allow me to jump the sinking ship that has become microsoft at a moments notice and still remain in the game. as i remember it was 14 months ago when microsoft announced that my win 7 was hopelessly outdated and insecure. As for Linux, Ubuntu, TENS (Lightweight Portable Security) and Tails all run well on my equipment.

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MrJimPhelps

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? says:

Hi Jim,

found this link about .cab files:

https://www.lifewire.com/cab-file-4144227

and this link about a built-in windows .cab\ .exe manipulator tool i wasn’t aware of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IExpress and:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/ff553615(v=vs.96)

and:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie11-ieak/iexpress-command-line-options

my XP info website shows windows install package files run through a hex editor for customization

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