Making Windows 11 on Arm less obnoxious

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ISSUE 20.12 • 2023-03-20 WINDOWS 11 By Mary Branscombe If you’re running Windows on Arm, you really want to be running Windows 11 rather than Windows
[See the full post at: Making Windows 11 on Arm less obnoxious]

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fisher75, Norio, Ben Myers

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Banishing widgets: ,,, you can do that with Group Policy Editor. … If you have Windows 11 Home, you’ll need to use the Registry Editor.

What a disconnect! Think of the philosophy of this.

I suppose (but do not know) that the bulk of the users with “home” have bought a laptop over the counter at BestBuy,  or (me) online, and that they are using Win11 at home, small business or, like me, retired but still working.

 

The population with least experience, least access to support (not me!), least of everything now has to play with the registry to fix what is perceived as a problem with Win11. Win95 screamed “Don’t play with this registry”

I was dragged kicking and screaming into Win11 at the start of this month, and am truly amazed at the retrograde steps. I can’t use the keyboard for Alt+F, S in MSPaint. Why?

I agree with all your points (I don’t have a clue about Arm) about Win11. Win11 has destroyed what to me were vital consistencies across Windows applications since 1990 and win3.1.

Cheers, Chris

 

Unless you're in a hurry, just wait.

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Cybertooth

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Chris Greaves wrote:

I can’t use the keyboard for Alt+F, S in MSPaint. Why?

Because Ctrl+S is quicker?

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Not because Ctrl+S is quicker, slower, or available.

Some people use the menu system in specific ways for specific reasons. Since Windows 3.1 I have been able to teach a consistent use of Windows applications by encouraging students to make use of the menu, especially as a means to explore an application.

Using Ctrl+S or that tiny toolbar button of a floppy disk is good for experts, but not good at all as a means of encouraging new users (and they continue to be born every day) to make better use of Windows applications.

 

I think that my main point in my post was that Home users, the ones most likely to make mistakes, now get to toy around with the Registry. I don’t see that as a positive step.

Cheers, Chris

Unless you're in a hurry, just wait.

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Chris Greaves wrote:

I think that my main point in my post was that Home users, the ones most likely to make mistakes, now get to toy around with the Registry. I don’t see that as a positive step.

I fail to understand why learning more about how Windows works, and gaining experience in making Windows do one’s bidding (rather than the other way around) is not a positive step.

How to create a full drive image, in my experience, is lesson #1.  Learning that #1 lesson takes the sting out of making mistakes while learning more lessons.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

I fail to understand why learning more about how Windows works, and gaining experience in making Windows do one’s bidding (rather than the other way around) is not a positive step.

Perhaps a personal view might help: I learned how to make Windows do my bidding thirty years ago. I embellished my Windows activities to have Windows do the Boring and Repetitive tasks of my life, and computing systems  are very good at taking over the boring and repetitive tasks. That is why we have computers!

But each new issue of Windows now causes me to spend about two weeks all up learning either

(a) How to adapt to Microsoft‘s view of how ***I*** should get my work done or

(b) Locating work-around fixes that can restore me to a familiar environment.

I have invested much time into mastering not only the Windows applications, and applications that run on Windows, but also how to use such techniques efficiently. Win11 has a revamped Notepad and MSPaint that goes against standards of operation that have been consistent in Windows for thirty years.

Please explain to me why, in these two applications alone, I should throw out thirty years and spend an extra two weeks because Microsoft doesn’t care about my established business practices.

Cheers, Chris

Unless you're in a hurry, just wait.

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Cybertooth

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Chris Greaves wrote:

But each new issue of Windows now causes me to spend about two weeks all up learning either (a) How to adapt to Microsoft‘s view of how ***I*** should get my work done or (b) Locating work-around fixes that can restore me to a familiar environment.

bbearren wrote:

I have never used the Windows 11 Graphical User Interface (GUI). I installed StartAllBack as soon as the upgrade finished. Consequently, I’ve never had any difficulty pinning things where I want them.

I also did not use the Windows GUI in 8, 8.1, or 10.  The last Windows GUI I used was Windows 7.  When 8 was launched, StartIsBack was launched shortly thereafter.  As Windows iterations were released, StartIsBack kept pace, StartIsBack+, StartIsBack++, and with Windows 11, StartAllBack, and StartAllBack is keeping apace with Windows 11 updates.  My system looks, feels and responds like Windows 7, except snappier, more efficient and stable.

Chris Greaves wrote:

Win11 has a revamped Notepad and MSPaint that goes against standards of operation that have been consistent in Windows for thirty years.

I’ve used both of those for years as well, Paint a few times a week, Notepad several times a day.  Notepad has tabs that I don’t use, but also don’t get in my way.  Paint has changed the ribbon menu, but everything I’ve used through the years is still there.  I have Notepad pinned to the Taskbar.  I also have a Notepad desktop shortcut that runs as Administrator for editing some of Windows innards.  If I used Paint more often, I’d pin it to the Taskbar as well.

As I wrote in another post in this thread, I don’t put much effort into bending to Microsoft’s will, I just use the practical experience and knowledge I’ve gained over the years to make Windows bend to my will.  And since I always upgrade and do not clean install, it doesn’t take much time after an upgrade to get my Windows straightened out and running the way I want it to.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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b wrote:

Because Ctrl+S is quicker?

My Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.1413 brings up the “Save As” dialog box.

On the other hand, I can open Paint with two clicks of the mouse: click Start, glide to Apps, slide over and down to Paint, click.  I rarely use keyboard shortcuts for anything, since in my experience it is much quicker and simpler to use my mouse.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

My Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.1413 brings up the “Save As” dialog box.

Correct. First time. Only.

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b wrote:

Correct.

Yep.

b wrote:

First time.

Nope.

b wrote:

Only.

Nope.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

b wrote:
First time.

Nope.

It didn’t work the first time?

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b wrote:

It didn’t work the first time?

Nope.  The reply box had focus on my first attempt, and there is no “Save As” option for an open text box.  I clicked on the sidebar, that changed focus to the web page, then “Save As” popped up when I used “Crtl S”.

bbearren wrote:

Ctrl + S brings up a “whatever has focus” dialog box, like this one I just copied: “Topic Making Windows 11 on Arm less obnoxious @ AskWoody.htm”

Quite straightforward.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I rather naively assumed you would be referring to using Ctrl-S within the Paint app which was the then current sub-topic. Why was using it elsewhere relevant?

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b wrote:

Why was using it elsewhere relevant?

Because of the presumption that “Keyboard Shortcuts” are actually shortcuts for everyone.  In the ’70’s I didn’t have a mouse, and keyboard shortcuts were useful, like the “EOF” key on a dumb terminal connected to the mainframe.

When a mouse became available, I found it much more useful than keyboard shortcuts; click-glide-click.  As I’ve said elsewhere, Crtl + V is about the only shortcut for which I have any use, primarily because the cursor position remains at the entry point where I want to paste content.

If I’m using paint, I’m using the mouse, rarely the keyboard.  Ctrl + S only gives me the option to “Save As” a .png.  If I want .jpg, I have to click the dropdown for file type, or use the tab and arrow keys to open the dropdown.  None of that, in my experience, is a “Shortcut”.   I use Paint more for .jpg than .png.  Clicking “File” then “Save as” gives me a slide-out for the file format.  Ctrl + S doesn’t  do that.

The same goes for Notepad.  The “Save As” is the default .txt file, while I may be writing a .bat file, a .cmd file, or a .reg file.  Using the mouse is quicker for me.  If I’m using Notepad as a rough draft/formatting platform, I’m not going to save it, anyway.  I’m going to copy the content and paste it in it’s intended target, such as a reply in a forum text box, then close Notepad without saving, which is my most frequent use for Notepad.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Long ago, I applied the sobriquet “Computer Sales Act of 2021” to Windows 11.  It was a boon to computer sales during the two-month Black Friday of 2021.

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geekdom

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Ben Myers wrote:

Long ago, I applied the sobriquet “Computer Sales Act of 2021” to Windows 11. It was a boon to computer sales during the two-month Black Friday of 2021.

To what extent did Windows 11 contribute to computer sales during that time?

https://www.pcworld.com/article/605424/the-pcs-2021-sales-proved-again-that-the-pc-isnt-even-close-to-dead.html

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Indeed; I’ve been warning users not to make changes to the registry unless they’re sure what they are doing since the 1990s and I am deeply sad that Microsoft is so wedded to news headlines everywhere they can be crammed in that there isn’t a better option I can recommend for removing the wretched things than a registry edit!

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Chris Greaves wrote:

I was dragged kicking and screaming into Win11 at the start of this month

No one is dragged screaming to Windows 11.

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I was.

Purchased a new laptop online and it came with Win11 installed.

Yes, I might have managed to download an ISO and build Win10, but as Mary Branscombe wrote – above and below the heading “Windows 11 annoyances” – there are [roblems with Win11.

I think too (but am not sure now) that Mary mentioned (and here I paraphrase) the advantages of a stable platform.

There are so many web pages out now describing how to negate changes to Windows and very few that I have seen describing the advantages.

I reckon that, except for security features, I could get my day’s work done still with WinXP and Word2003/VBA.

Cheers, Chris

Unless you're in a hurry, just wait.

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me too: I have a machine with Windows 11 on for testing that sits on the shelf for months at a time because I find I’m so unproductive with this UI, and I was dragged kicking AND screaming to Windows 11 on Arm when I bought a lovely little Lenovo device and realised I couldn’t downgrade it to Windows 10 without losing 64-bit emulation. On all my other devices I can continue to avoid Windows 11 until 2025 or Microsoft makes it less annoying (I’m not sure which will come first), but for Arm devices where Microsoft has made Windows 11 the default, there’s no real choice.

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windbg

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ARM information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family

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offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
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Mary Branscombe wrote:

I want to be able to mute system volume or change Wi-Fi networks with a single click from the taskbar, not wade through an entire mini control panel when I’m in a hurry.

Doesn’t muting volume take two clicks on a speaker icon on Windows 11, exactly the same as Windows 10? And selecting wi-fi network three clicks on 11 just like 10? 😕 🤔

Mary Branscombe wrote:

But the thing that has had me boycotting Windows 11 until now is the one widget you can’t turn off: the News widget that thinks I care about the UK royal family, Premier League soccer, celebrities who call their kids spoiled, or the latest manicure shape for your nails. The best you can do is install enough other widgets to push news headlines off-screen and hope that constantly down-voting the stories you don’t want to see actually works (though not very well).

You didn’t try “Block stories from …” or “Manage interests”?

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‘block stories’ and ‘manage interests’ don’t remove the news widget and as many other users have found, they don’t do very much to actually change what stories you see in it; there’s a lot of feedback from users on how little effect this has – and I don’t want to devote hundreds of clicks to training the ML algorithm for something I have zero interest in seeing at all!

 

 

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Blocking sources works for me.

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In Windows 10, you have single-use controls for network and volume: a single click on the taskbar gives you the specific controls for what you want to do. In Windows 11, these are combined into a mini control panel with multiple options, so whichever icon you click in the notification area, you get the whole mini control panel that you have to navigate – and if you want the list of networks that used to appear when you clicked on the taskbar, that’s buried another level deep inside the mini control panel. Microsoft’s suggestion is to just use the buttons on your keyboard, forgetting that some of us use those buttons as function keys – and some of us just prefer single-use controls to a jam-packed control panel.

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Navigation to mute speaker is minimal. One extra click to switch wi-fi networks. Is that something you do manually very often?

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in normal times, I might do it five times in a day because I work in multiple new locations; in the office I do it every time the Wi-Fi craps out which is far more times than I want to have to have an extra click for. The cognitive load of finding the right place in the interface is actually worse than the number of clicks – and like the rest of this very active discussion, suggests that the underlying issue is how many users want a lot more control over the Windows interface than Microsoft is prepared to allow.

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Mary Branscombe wrote:

In Windows 10, you have single-use controls for network and volume: a single click on the taskbar gives you the specific controls for what you want to do.

The way I have my desk set up, USB cables get in my way, so I use a Logitech Wireless Mouse and Keyboard.  The keyboard has media control keys on the top right; volume up is on the right, volume down is next to it, and mute is next to volume down.

My Dell Latitude E5420 has volume and mute keys on the right side of the keyboard.  I don’t use the GUI for volume.  As for WiFi with my laptop, I have it set to connect automatically to the WiFi with which I come in contact from time to time.  I don’t need to mess with that unless I’m connecting to a previously un-visited hot spot.

My desktop is connected via Ethernet, no issues at all there.  The GUI controls for media and connections are basically irrelevant.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Mary Branscombe wrote:

Luckily, StartAllBack ($5) does work on Arm. You can even use winget to install it as part of a setup script for customizing new systems.

WARNING: Make sure you get the latest version of this utility (currently v3.6.2)

The latest version of StartAllBack is v3.6.3.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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it’s great that they update the utility faster than we can publish articles! 👍

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Mary Branscombe wrote:

But the thing that has had me boycotting Windows 11 until now is the one widget you can’t turn off: the News widget

Right-click and select “Uninstall”.  That turns it off.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

Mary Branscombe wrote:

But the thing that has had me boycotting Windows 11 until now is the one widget you can’t turn off: the News widget

Right-click and select “Uninstall”.  That turns it off.

Right-click on what/where?

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b wrote:

Right-click on what/where?

“News” in “Apps”.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Uninstalling the News app does not prevent news stories appearing in widgets (just tested).

(And uninstalling from Apps doesn’t use a right-click.)

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b wrote:

Uninstalling the News app does not prevent news stories appearing in widgets (just tested).

I got rid of widgets, which prevents anything from appearing in widgets.

b wrote:

(And uninstalling from Apps doesn’t use a right-click.)

Yes, it does if StartAllBack is the GUI.

Mary Branscombe wrote:

Luckily, StartAllBack ($5) does work on Arm. You can even use winget to install it as part of a setup script for customizing new systems.

WARNING: Make sure you get the latest version of this utility (currently v3.6.2)

bbearren wrote:

The latest version of StartAllBack is v3.6.3.

bbearren wrote:

I have never used the Windows 11 Graphical User Interface (GUI). I installed StartAllBack as soon as the upgrade finished. Consequently, I’ve never had any difficulty pinning things where I want them.

… or uninstalling things that I don’t want.  I don’t really make an effort in trying to figure out how Microsoft wants me to use Windows.  I much prefer making Windows into something I want to use.  I’ve been doing this for about 25 years, and picked up a bit of insight and a few tricks along the way.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

I got rid of widgets, which prevents anything from appearing in widgets.

Yet your “That will turn it off.” exuded all the confidence of an actual user.

bbearren wrote:

Yes, it does if StartAllBack is the GUI.

Mary Branscombe may use that; but I, like most others, do not.

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b wrote:

Yet your “That will turn it off.” exuded all the confidence of an actual user.

I am an actual user.  I’m posting this reply using Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.1413), not Apple, not Linux.

b wrote:

Mary Branscombe may use that; but I, like most others, do not.

That is certainly your choice.  See the green text in my signature line.  I prefer the Windows 7 look and feel, and the numerous other tweaks in the utility that permeate the Windows 11 experience; it’s not just a Start Menu.  There are a number of “features” in Windows (all versions) for which I have neither use nor desire, so, rather than ignore them, I have, over the years, discovered various ways and utilities to eliminate them without in any way compromising the efficiency and stability of Windows itself.

Windows 11 is a bit different (as each new version has been), but it is still an OS that has it’s innards built by Microsoft, so I am able to figure it out and make it run my way.  I don’t like Widgets, so they are gone.  I don’t like Special Folders, so they are gone.  I don’t like the MSN News app, so it’s uninstalled.  There’s more to the list, but folks can get my drift.

For those who would rather stay self-confined within Microsoft’s box while they bash Microsoft for it, see the green text in my signature line.  For those who would rather spend the time necessary to learn the quirks of each new version, see the green text in my signature line.

Following my own advice has been my mantra for a couple of decades.  I have been told via various and sundry Windows Forums with which I have been associated that some of the things I do can’t be done, simply won’t work, or will break Windows beyond repair.  Not yet.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

I am an actual user.

Not of widgets.

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b wrote:

Not of widgets.

Correct.

bbearren wrote:

I got rid of widgets, which prevents anything from appearing in widgets.

I don’t have to use Widgets in order to uninstall Widgets.

 

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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The News app that you can uninstall does show the same kind of stories as the News widget, but uninstalling it doesn’t remove the News widget: Microsoft has confirmed on multiple occasions that there is no way to remove the News widget without turning off the whole Widget bar. You might think this is a peculiar oversight or you might think that there is ad money in news headlines…

1 user thanked author for this post.

Patricia Grace

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Mary Branscombe wrote:

Microsoft has confirmed on multiple occasions that there is no way to remove the News widget without turning off the whole Widget bar.

That was my choice, as the whole Widget bar had nothing of interest for me.  I uninstalled the Widget bar (yes, uninstalled, not “turning off”) using the Command Prompt, Run as administrator with this command-line:

winget uninstall “windows web experience pack”

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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FYI, while uninstalling the Windows web experience pack does remove the widget bar, it also removes some other things that Microsoft delivers through the Store rather than through Windows Update; I don’t know of any that are particularly useful (it’s things like a link to your MSA in the Settings app), but in the future that might block you from using something else in Windows 11 that you do want. Using GPEdit or the registry key targets just the Widget bar.

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Mary Branscombe wrote:

I don’t know of any that are particularly useful

Indeed.

Mary Branscombe wrote:

in the future that might block you from using something else in Windows 11 that you do want.

I’ve already stripped out a bunch of stuff “in Windows” that I don’t want.  I won’t mind not being offered more stuff.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Ever since the initial beta, I, too, have questioned why Microsoft messed up its glitzy sparkling Windows 11 desktop so badly, making it more difficult with more clicks to do routine tasks and imposing a different Mac-like visual organization of its beloved OS.  Unlike the stunning failures of Vista and Windows 8, Windows 11 will become the go-to Windows OS only because Microsoft can now force us to use it after October 14, 2025 if we want our Windows systems to be as secure as possible.  And Microsoft shoves Edge Chromium down our throats whenever it gets the chance.

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Patricia Grace, windbg

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“Making Windows 11 on Arm less obnoxious”

One question: What is “Arm”?  What am I missing?

How about Leg?

 

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WSpfeldmann wrote:

One question: What is “Arm”? What am I missing?

Chatty Bing says, “ARM is a British semiconductor and software design company based in Cambridge, England. Its primary business is in the design of ARM processors (CPUs). ARM started life as part of Acorn, maker of the BBC computer.”

But for the full story, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family

WSpfeldmann wrote:

How about Leg?

Windows on one leg wouldn’t run.

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WSpfeldmann

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Thanks! Now I feel totally “in” again!

As for the leg remark, I always wind up being the straight man. 🙂

Cheers!

-Peter

 

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Arm processors are the more battery friendly CPUs found in phones and tablets; now that they have enough processing power, they also drive lightweight Windows devices (mostly tablets and small laptops). Windows itself has been recompiled to run on ARM CPUs but while some applications have been recompiled, many run in emulation and tweaking utilities often take dependencies on things in the OS that are not exactly the same across architectures. Frequently Windows on Arm is “just Windows” – but not always.

 

BTW: Arm is the company; ARM is the architecture. The capitalisation has changed over time (it used to stand for Acorn Research Machines).

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bbearren wrote:

My Windows 11 Pro Version 22H2 (OS Build 22621.1413 brings up the “Save As” dialog box. On the other hand, I can open Paint with two clicks of the mouse: click Start, glide to Apps, slide over and down to Paint, click. I rarely use keyboard shortcuts for anything, since in my experience it is much quicker and simpler to use my mouse.

I don’t deny that Paint has a save-as dialog box.

I do object that after thirty years of using Alt+F, A in MSPaint and every other windows-based application, that Alt+F,A no longer works in MSPaint alone.

Keyboard vs, Mouse is a different argument. I use both, but try not to switch between the two too often. I have read of reports that show that nine times out of ten the keyboard is faster than the mouse, one reason alone being that we make fewer errors (which cost recovery time). As well folks are very fond of saying “It’s only a single click”, but if you watch office workers you will se multiple muscle movements as the pointer is carefully brought to the target point, and only then can a single click be issued.

My main beef remains that too many new versions of Windows seem to be implementing change for the sake of change, just like “bigger tail fins” on the sedans of the a9506.

 

Cheers, Chris

 

Unless you're in a hurry, just wait.

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Chris Greaves wrote:

I don’t deny that Paint has a save-as dialog box.

Ctrl + S brings up a “whatever has focus” dialog box, like this one I just copied:

“Topic Making Windows 11 on Arm less obnoxious @ AskWoody.htm”

About the only keyboard shortcut I use on occasion is Ctrl + V.

 

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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New ExplorerPatcher 22621.1413.54.5

Release notes

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alas, ExplorerPatcher still doesn’t work with Windows on Arm – maybe one day!

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