Rebuilding the Windows Boot Manager to get Clover to run?

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First a bit of background: I’ve built a PC from spares and put LinuxLite on it. As an experiment I added a PCIe-NVME adapter and installed Clover, first on a USB and then on a HDD, as the BIOS did not support bootable SSD. It worked

I then wanted to do the same with a W10 Pro PC. I cloned most partitions from the HDD to the SSD and changed the UUIDs for System Reserved and C:. But whilst Clover boots from the USB and displays it’s menu, it will not then boot off either the HDD or the SSD. I just get a blank screen with a flashing cursor.

Also I noted that whereas on the Linux PC Clover only displays the bootable partitions, on the PC it displays all partitions. The PC boots UEFI.

It cannot be the hardware as they are very similar and the Linux SSD when put in the Win 10 PC boots OK via Clover USB. Maybe its the Window Boot Manager?

When booting the PC the Window Boot Manager lists 3 options:

• Windows 10
• Microsoft Windows   – this does not run, I think it is an XP hangover
• Macrium Reflect Recovery  – imaging software; I have this on a bootable USB as well

So I don’t need these options.

Questions:

• will removing the Windows Boot Menu solve my problem?
• where is the Windows Boot Menu stored? – is it in System Reserved? I’ve seen MS instructions for creating a fresh System Reserved.
• how to remove Windows Boot Menu / options?

I was using (I think) BCDEdit to list the boot entries but ended up corrupting the PC and Windows could not start or repair so I had to restore from an image. So a program that could build a fresh one safely is preferred to using command lines.

Thanks

Alan

 

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Alan_uk wrote:

The PC boots UEFI.

will removing the Windows Boot Menu solve my problem?

where is the Windows Boot Menu stored?

Removing the Windows Boot Menu will only keep Windows from booting.

The Windows Boot Menu is in the BCD store which is in an EFI partition formatted FAT32.  Windows will not boot in a UEFI environment without the EFI partition.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Thanks for replying. Sorry, I’ve not made myself clear. It’s not about not having a BCD or EFI but having one with no options so only Windows 10 runs. My thinking is that a clean SR partition might clear the problem.

Some people have struggled to get Clover working on a Windows PC but other have got it working. The problems I’ve seen often have been due to firmware but as I have proved, the hardware/firmware on my PC does run Clover with an SSD with Linux. So my thinking is it must be the  Windows partitioning / partition contents that is the problem.

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I’ve just acquired a used laptop for travelling. It has Win 11.  It can boot with Clover. Clover lists:

1. Boot Microsoft EFI Boot from SYSTEM_DRV  <—- laptop partition 1
2. Boot Windows from SYSTEM_DRV   <—- laptop partition 2
3. Boot Windows from Legacy HD3 <— USB stick partition 1
4. Boot Windows from Legacy HD4 <— USB stick partition 2

The only one that boots is 1.

diskmgt shows:

1. 260MB EFI System Partition
2. 237GB Windows-SSD (C:) Boot, Page File, Crash Dump, Basic Data Partiton
3. 1000MB Recovery Partition

When 2. says Boot I presume that means bootable operating system rather that the Windows boot manager (options).

Then I read how to mount the EFI partition and explore the content. I’ll do that tomorrow on the Win 10 PC to see if it sheds any light.

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Alan_uk wrote:

The only one that boots is 1.

When one has done some shuffling around as you have done within a UEFI environment, invalid entries can be written/retained in the BCD store.  Those need to be edited.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Some progress I think.

I listed the contents of the System Reserve partition (SRP) and there is no EFI directory. According to a web page, with GPT, if the system cannot find the EFI dir it reverts to booting via BIOS.

From my reading I need to create a full SRP and I deduce the commands will be:

mountvol S: 680E15D70E159EDE
dir S:         [to check]
bcdboot c:\windows /s S: /f ALL /c /v

Where:

S: is the SRP
source is my HDD Windows partition (this is C: under Macrium Reflect / Windows PE)
/s is target System Reserve
/f ALL=EFI & BIOS
/c=existing BCD elements should not be migrated.
/v=verbose

None of the following:

/m   merges the values from an existing boot entry into a new boot entry.
/addlast makes Windows the last boot option
/p preserves existing Windows Boot Manager position
/d preserves the existing default operating system

What do you think?

I have a image of SRP & Windows partitions as backups.

Here is my SRP contents with non important files removed:

linux  ~  tree /media/uefi
/media/uefi
├── Boot
│   ├── BCD
│   ├── BCD{83ab7390-cc18-11e5-8df1-080027003487}.TM.blf
│   ├── BCD{83ab7390-cc18-11e5-8df1-080027003487}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regtrans-ms
│   ├── BCD{83ab7390-cc18-11e5-8df1-080027003487}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regtrans-ms
│   ├── BCD.LOG
│   ├── BCD.LOG1
│   ├── BCD.LOG2
│   ├── BCD_oo.sav
│   ├── bg-BG
│   │   └── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   ├── BOOTSTAT.DAT
│   ├── bootuwf.dll
│   ├── bootvhd.dll
│   ├── xx-XX <<< removed all country entries
│   │   ├── bootmgr.exe.mui
│   │   └── memtest.exe.mui
│   ├── Fonts
│   │   ├── xxxx.ttf <<< removed all fonts
│   ├── memtest.exe
│   ├── Resources
│   │   ├── bootres.dll
│   │   └── en-US
│   │   └── bootres.dll.mui
├── boot.ini
├── bootmgr
├── BOOTNXT
├── BOOTSECT.BAK
├── NTDETECT.COM
├── Recovery
│   └── Logs
├── rescuepe.log
└── System Volume Information
├── $CBT2
├── Chkdsk
│   └── Chkdsk20150112122821.log
├── EfaSIDat
│   └── SYMEFA.DB
├── LightningSand.CFD
├── SPP
│   └── OnlineMetadataCache
└── tracking.log`

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Alan_uk wrote:

What do you think?

Don’t know where you’re getting your information, but Windows does not boot from the MSR or SRP.  It boots only from the EFI partition in a UEFI environment.

If you want to boot Windows, you need to create an EFI partition.  Diskpart can create an EFI partition.  Even though Microsoft claims that the MSR is a required partition, I don’t have one on any of my systems.  I deleted them and reclaimed the disk space.

Note above that there is only one partition marked “System”, and it is the EFI partition.  MSR/SRP partitions are unnecessary, despite what Microsoft says.

Unless you create an EFI partition, you won’t be able to get Windows to boot.  The relevant BCD is within the EFI partition.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

1 user thanked author for this post.

Alan_uk

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Many thanks for your continuing help @bbearren

You’re right, the disks are MBR despite the bios set to UEFI. As I found out today, in the absence of a EFI partition the boot will revert to BIOS. My mistake in not checking this earlier. It’s a pity MS diskmgt does not show this in in the drive panels.

I investigated programs to convert MBR to GPT. I downloaded EaseToDo but when I went to the convert option it said I had to buy it. Given I already have Macrium Reflect it would be a duplication, although Reflect does not have that function. Reflect suggest use the command line to create the EFI partition and then use Reflect fix booting problems to rebuild the EFI.

Microsoft’s MBR2GPT.EXE looked promising until I read it does not support disks with extended partitions. I suspect EaseToDo will not work either if it simply calls mbr2gpt. So if I need to delete my numerous partitions within the extended partition then I might as well wipe the slate clean:
<p style=”padding-left: 40px;”>ensure backups are up-to-date,  delete the whole disk, reformat as GPT, make an EFI partition, restore my partitions with Reflect and then use Reflect’s fix booting function, reboot, probably correct any drive mappings, and another full backup.</p>
I need to try and do that this week when I can devote a day to it. It is a necessary pre-cursor to Win 11 in 2025, unless I go to Linux!

 

 

 

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Alan_uk wrote:

I might as well wipe the slate clean: ensure backups are up-to-date, delete the whole disk, reformat as GPT, make an EFI partition, restore my partitions with Reflect and then use Reflect’s fix booting function, reboot, probably correct any drive mappings, and another full backup.

A GPT disk supports up to 128 primary partitions.  I’m not at all familiar with Macrium Reflect, but others here speak highly of it.  I use Image For Windows and what you’re envisioning doing is fairly simple with IFW.

You definitely need a drive image of every partition.  Perhaps @RetiredGeek or another of the Macrium Reflect gurus will chime in on this thread and give you some pointers.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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You definitely need a drive image of every partition.  Perhaps @RetiredGeek or another of the Macrium Reflect gurus will chime in on this thread and give you some pointers.

That’s what I do. Have partitions C: to K: on the main disk, each for a separate type of data with the key data partition backed up multiple times per day. If I had a decent NAS I might move to continuous backup on that. Also have 3 UPS in the house: 2 computers and all the network and microprocessors stuff.

Always been a fan of imaging partitions. MR does support file backup as well but I only use it for one particular instance. I also map the Windows Users directory to the key data partition, though I usually avoid storing stuff in the MS User’s directory, preferring functional folders in the key data partition (e.g. accounts, email, etc)

On Windows 3.11 I used Partition Magic, then TrueImage for years until they ruined the user interface. Then moved to OO Imaging – a big mistake as unreliable and unhelpful support – then Paragon and now on Macrium Reflect which I find very good. Support is very good. Bad side is they are now expensive for home use with just 2 Windows computers: it’s either 1 or 5 licence copies. Best aspect is being able to mount the partition backup as a virtual drive and extract a single file.

 

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Alan,

@bbearren asked me to take a look at this thread.

To the best of my knowledge Macrium Reflect will not Convert MBR to GPT. For this operation you need a Patition Manager. There are several good free ones out there but they do not support that function! You’ll need to purchase a Paid version.

I’ve done this on a friends computer using AOMEI Partition Manager Prof.

For a free option Mini-Tool Partition Wizard Free vers 2.8+ has the MBR to GPT conversion feature but I do not have personal experience with using it. I have however used Partition Wizard for other operations and it has always functioned as advertised.

Aparently you can accomplish this with Macrium Reflect (Not sure which version is required) however it is a multi step operation macrium reflect convert MBR to GPT. I used the query shown and got a bunch of results. The link is to an answer on the Macrium site but you may want to google it yourself and read some other answers.

AS ALWAYS DO NOT attempt any of these operations w/o a FULL IMAGE BACKUP using a program you trust and verified that you can successfully restore the image!

PS. It seems that I contradict my self in this post but I was doing research as I progressed so I had to back track. I thought I’d leave it this way to show that it always pays to update your knowledge as things change fast in this industry. And of course at my age other things like memory change also!

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Many thanks @RetiredGeek  I have Macrium Reflect 8.1 which I believe is the latest looking at the MR website. As far as I can see there is not inbuilt support for converting MBR to GPT. Their knowledge base gives the DOS commands to reformat the disk and create the partitions using MR Recovery (Win PE) and the DOS diskpart. Then to run the MR fix booting problems.

https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=23396929

 

 

 

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@Alan_uk, I’ve gone through this process a couple of times, and there can definitely be hiccups.  As @RetiredGeek says, don’t attempt this without a full image backup.  I’ve done it with my laptop, Adventures With UEFI, and my desktop, Converting a re-build from MBR to GPT.

Perseverance is the key.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

1 user thanked author for this post.

Alan_uk

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Thanks @bbearren. I certainly needed perseverance but after spending much of the weekend I’ve some success but not quite there.

This post concentrates on the conversion to GPT in case it helps others. The next post will say is I succeed in getting Clover to boot off the SSD.

Aim: To convert Windows 10 Pro X64 PC from MBR to GPT.

• Note: this system has 2 x Windows: on SSD and HDD1.
• << are comments

1. Using Macrium Reflect Backed up each partition on the HDD1 (existing Windows C & K) and SSD (D to J) to another hard disk HDD2
2. Copied the backups to a 3rd harddisk HDD3 and disconnected it.
3. Booted to Macrium Reflect Recovery (this has Windows PE)
4. Ran diskpart in a DOS window:

list disk
Disk 0 931GB << HDD1 C:, (D: to J: hidden), K:
Disk 1 931GB << HDD2 M:
Disk 2 465GB << SSD U (copy C:), D to J:
Disk 3 7GB << USB Macrium Reflect Recovery
select disk 0 << HDD
list part
clean
convert gpt
create partition efi size=250
format fs=fat32
create partition msr size=150
format fs=fat32    << looks like I forgot this or it was ignored
create partition size=650 << space for EFI/MSR expansion – not formatted
<< Repeated for Disk 2 SSD
Exit

5. Back in Macrium Reflect Recovery (MRR) I restored all the data partitions but not EFI or MSR.

1. Rounded or expanded partitions to whole GB size.
2. Note: MMR lists first disk as 1 whereas diskpart lists first disk is 0.
3. Had to check MRR Alignment = Vista/7/SSD as old Extended Partitions defaulted to XP alignment, not 4K alignment.

6. Ran Macrium Fix Boot Recovery – finds 2 C: partitions: HDD1 and SSD – fixed both in turn.

• Activity log dialog box flashes for a few seconds and is then blocked by completed dialog box. Did it work without errors?
• Option to choose which to boot from: chose HDD1 in both cases

7. Exit MRR and Windows reboots – fails – file \Windows\system32\winload.efi is missing

• << Later I suspected it was booting to SSD and cannot find C:\Windows as \Windows on SSD becomes K:

8. Booted to Windows Recovery Disk
8a. Chose Troubleshoot/Advanced options/Command line and ran: Bootrec /FixMbr <<< system cannot find the file specified
8b. Chose Troubleshoot/Startup Repair
9. PC reboots with Windows Boot Manager – 2 choices: Windows 10 on Volume 4 OR Windows 10 on Volume 15
9a. Tried Vol 4 as I thought this was the HDD but Windows fails to boot and fails to repair.
10. Entered DOS and ran diskpart.

• Note: In diskpart volume no.s are +1 different as 0 is the DVD/CD drive.

list volumes << EFI is volume 3 but which drive? (there are 2 EFI partitions).
<< Note: MSR volumes not listed and order does not reflect physical order on disk!
list drive   << 0=HDD1, 1=HDD2, 2=SSD, 3=USB
select 0
list part
1 System 250MB << EFI
2 Reserved 150MB
3 Primary 650MB << unformatted spare
4 Primary 125GB << C:
select volume 1
assign letter=S << actually S is assigned to spare 650MB unformatted
exit
dir << volume does not contain a recognised file system
select volume 3 << EFI 250MB
assign letter=T
exit
dir T: << EFI – contains Microsoft / Boot
bcdboot c:\Windows /s T: /f ALL /c /v
BFSVC: Unable to open file \\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolume12\Boot\……. << Lots of these errors
Boot files successfully created

11. Rebooted – same 2 choices: Windows 10 on Vol 4 OR Windows 10 on Vol 15
11a. Tried Vol 4 – same problem: cannot find \Windows\system32\winload.efi is missing
11b. Tried Vol 15 – Windows boots to Login screen! Login as Admin. Slow so must be running on HDD.

• This machine is always very slow for 5 to 10 mins after login – HDD is at max. 100%. And slow to load programs. It’s my wife’s PC and she doesn’t mind but it’s the house/my backup PC and I have to maintain it . Hence desire to boot off SSD.

12. Opened Disk Mgt. All drives letters ex HDD C: wrong by 1 position. Corrected. Make SSD Windows = U.
13. Investigate the 2 EFI partitions. Assign drive letter R to one EFI but Windows denies access; ditto in Linux Live.

• Windows says give access in Security tab but cannot find this.
• However, I determined that EFI on SSD was empty but EFI on HDD1 has some space used.

14. Boot using MR Recovery / Win PE then DOS window and ran diskpart
14a. Assign letter R to SSD EFI partition and ran:

bdcboot U:\Windows /s R: /f ALL /c /v
BFSVC: Unable to open file \\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolume12\Boot\……. << Lots of these errors
Boot files successfully created

15. Rebooted – 2 choices: Windows 10 on Vol 4 OR Windows 10 on Vol 15
15a. Tried Vol 4 (SSD) – Your window system needs repair: winload.efi missing (I think)
15b. Tried Vol 15 (HDD) – OK – get to Windows Login screen. Phew! Login as Admin.
16. Rebooted into Reflect Recovery: SSD EFI now has 45.2 MB used – same as HDD EFI.
16a. Rebooted and login to Windows on Vol 15.
17. Downloaded and installed EasyUEFI 15 day trial and ran it:
17a. Went to Manage EFI System Partition then to EFI System Partition Explorer

• Went to Disk 1 HDD EFI partition and clicked Open (button bottom right)
• No print facility. Noted by hand the contents of all the EFI folders.
• Both SSD and HDD EDIs have the same content.

17b. Went to Home / Manage Boot Order – looks like single Windows Boot Manager for whole system.
17c. Went back to EFI System Partition Explorer

• Uploaded CLOVER folder within EFI folder on Clover USB stick to within EFI folder on PC. Did this for SSD EFI and HDD EFI

19. Booted from Clover USB stick – usual problem that all partitions are listed, not just the bootable ones.

• But on my Linux PC with the same set up (SSD+HDD & Linux OS on both) only get the HDD EFI and the SSD EFI

19a. Tried option 1: Boot MS EFI Boot from EFI – fails to boot – blank screen
19b. Tried option 2: Boot Windows from EFI – Boots to Login screen – running off SSD! Success! It’s fast

Hints: to differentiate the duplicate EFI & Windows partitions:
1. Should have given labels to EFI partitions if Windows allows, and/or
2. Should have sized the 2xEFI and 2xWindows slightly different

So in summary:

1. I have converted to GPT
2. I can boot to HDD by selecting Volume 15 (Windows defaults to this but there is a 30 second count down timer in Windows Boot Manager before it actions)
3. I can boot to SSD by using the Clover USB Stick

I need to:

1. get Clover to run off the HDD *before* the Windows Boot Manager.
   Various web article talk about replacing the bootX64.efi with a copy of cloverx64.efi and/or replacing the bootmgfw.efi or bootmgr.efi (need to check which one) with cloverx64.efi.
2. check the SSD & HDD EFI & C: partitions have different GUUIDs
3. Customise Clover to only list EFI partitions (defined GUUIDs) and change countdown timer to 5 secs.
4. See if the Windows Boot Manager (WBM) options Vol 4 and Vol 15 also show SSD or HDD, plus change the countdown time from 30 secs to say 5 [not really needed if fixing Clover means WBM never appears again].

To be continued in next post.

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Today I had another go and have managed to boot to the SSD without a Clover USB stick. I achieved this after reading many articles and seeing YT videos. Most seem to be aimed at Mac users wanting to dual boot OSX and Windows.

This is what I did:

1. I had forgotten to copy the NVMe driver into the correct folder. Using EasyUEFI explorer function uploaded NvmExpressDxe-64.efi from Clover USB stick  N:\EFI\CLOVER\drivers\UEFI to HDD EFI partition folder \EFI\BOOT
2. In EasyEUFI selected Manage EFI Boot Option on main Home screen and:
   1. Clicked Create new entry + icon
   2. Selected Linux or other OS
   3. Selected Disk 1 HDD  (Disk 0 was SSD)
   4. Clicked Browse and navigated to \EFI\CLOVER\CLOVERX64.efi
   5. Set Description to: Clover to run Windows 10 on SSD
   6. Did not set Optional data
   7. Clicked OK
   8. Moved new Clover entry to top of list (Up arrow icon)
   9. Moved existing CD/DVD Drive to top of list (optional). List is now.
      1. CD/DVD Drive
      2. Clover to run Windows 10 on SSD
      3. Window Boot Manager
      4. Hard Drive – empty
   10. Closed EasyUEFI
3. Removed Clover USB stick and rebooted
4. Clover menu appears but still shows all the partitions as icons
   1. Icon 1 Boots to the HDD and starts with the Windows Boot Manager again showing Volume 15 (HDD) – works – and Volume 4 (SSD) – does not work
   2. Icon 2 Boots straight into Windows login screen on the SSD

Clover remembers the last icon option chosen and will boot to that automatically next time after a 5 second delay [this can be change in config.plist file – 0=instant].

I then edited Clover’s config.plist to hide all the non bootable partitions using the <key>#Hide</key> option – there’s an example in the provided config.plist  – but it’s not working. I need to investigate more.
<h6>A free alternative to EasyEUFI is a combination of Explorer++ and Bootice. Explorer++ needs to be run as Administrator and first of all you need to enter Command window as Administrator and use Diskpart to locate the EFI partition (volume) and assign a drive letter. I’ve not used Bootice to add a boot entry (I used EasyEUFI during it’s 15 day trial period) but only used Bootice to view the boot entries. Bootice looks an extremely powerful tool that could do a lot of damage if you just fiddle with it.</h6>
<h6></h6>
<h6></h6>
 

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