Windows Defender not updating on Windows 7 and 8.1

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Has anyone seen issues with Windows Defender not updating on Windows 7 and 8.1 in last two months or so?

• Click manual to update does nothing.
• Running update from command prompt does nothing.
• Only solution seems to download the offline update of 136MB or so. (Not an option for some that have slow DSL connections or dialup)
  • https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates
• Scanned computers with it after updates was install and nothing was found.
• Scanned with Malwarebytes as well to see if it might pick something up but nothing

I am getting call from over 1000 people that are still using Windows 7 and 8.1 since they can not or will not be part of MS spyware nation. They are getting message that antivirus is outdated and they have no clue why. Now I am getting calls from them on daily basis or after 7 days have pass. In June, I only got a couple per day but now in July and start of August, I am getting 10+ calls per day from different users and different computers. A few of them are repeat users from June.

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kandb

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Came across this issue on Win8.1 installs early last month. Now they are sitting in offline redundancy as I don’t think MSFT intend to fix it.

Had been updating Win8.1 Defender without the need for WU service running up until early July, since EoS. Then the WU service was necessary to enable definition updates, then soon after, defender update mechanism hit a brick wall, no updates even though the offline updates were up to date to download and manually update.

Using the WU client version to block definitions at MSFT’s end for 7 and 8.1 to kill them off? 3rd party AV choices are slim and probably not worth it.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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kandb

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Relative to Windows 8.1 Pro x64:
The following quoted update prior to July 12th (patch Tuesday) when this all started on Win8.1 here on two devices. There are obviously newer engine updates but this pins down aforementioned definition update issues.

June-2023 (Engine: 1.1.23060.1005)

Security intelligence update version: 1.393.71.0
Released: July 10, 2023 (Engine only)
Engine: 1.1.23060.1005
Support phase: Security and Critical Updates

What’s new
Fixed an issue with ASR rules deployed via Intune to display accurately in the Microsoft 365 Defender portal
Fixed a performance issue when building and validating Defender cache
Improved performance by removing redundant exclusion checks

Ref: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/security/defender-endpoint/microsoft-defender-antivirus-updates

Initially there were definition updates which required two attempts after the following error popup appeared that successfully installed.

Date taken: 11th July 2023/ Time: 11:59am GMT

Error code: 0x80072f8f points to root certs (nothing newer than EoS in WU), file corruption (not applicable in this instance SFC integrity all good)

Not long after, the definitions would not update without the WU service enabled. WU was enabled, repopulated and some came through for a few days.

Then no definition updates available after subsequent engine updates (only by downloading the 100+mb definition file for a manual update.)

I have my reservations after the despicable GWX campaign.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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kandb

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Just fired up Win8.1 to recheck to see if anything has changed since a couple of days ago.

This is the previous AND post check screenshot to Defender updating. Back to sleep it goes.
W10 however, has just updated Defender to: AM_Delta_Patch_1.393.2046.0 (2023-08-02)
So there is something amiss at Redmond with security.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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kandb

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Same here.  I have some old VMs with Win7 SP1 and Win 8.1 installed.  Up until recently I was able to update MSE on Win7 and Defender on Win 8.1 through the available user interfaces for both.  However, now updates through the user interfaces for both fail with error code 0x80072f8f.  Manually downloading signature updates followed by installation succeeds on both.

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kandb

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Yes, I also noticed that Windows Defender stopped updating for Windows 8.1 in the middle of July.
The only possible workaround, if you want to call it a workaround, is to download the definitions and install them. See https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates  I use this method for my offline versions of Windows 7 (MSE) and Windows 8 (Defender). The 3rd party choices that I am aware of are AVG and Avast.

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kandb

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Maybe I’ve simply been lucky, but all my Windows 7 systems are still receiving Windows Defender updates normally. Matter of fact, just a few minutes ago I installed a new WD update on the machine that I’m typing this on.

In the event the distinction might make a difference, in my case it’s the older “anti-malware” incarnation of Windows Defender, not the “anti-virus” incarnation that began with Windows 8 and got rebranded “Microsoft Security Essentials” for Win7.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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kandb

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ghb wrote:

Has anyone seen issues with Windows Defender not updating on Windows 7 and 8.1 in last two months or so? (Not an option for some that have slow DSL connections or dialup)

Yes. I have seen it. Several of my clients have this problem. I noticed it in June as well. I was fixing another issues and noticed the pop up. I asked the customer how long it’d been like that and was told maybe 12 days or so. I asked why they did not call me and was told they had no money to pay for repairing it. When they had issues getting to the internet, then they called me. I charge cheap so was surprise they didn’t call me sooner. I usually don’t charge for anything I can fix in under 20 min. After that, and if they’re a regular client, I ask for whatever they can pay. I got paid with a basket of 16 eggs fresh from chickens and ducks. Another time was paid with 4 fresh loaf of bread. Another time got only paid with 2 gallons of milk. Others either give IOU slips or pay very little. My non-regular clients ask for a flat rate that is below what others in the area charge.

I heard from a few other tech friends that Microsoft (MS) has deploy a bug into the update to get people to stop using Windows 7 and 8.1. This is their new ploy get people to move to Windows 11 filled with MS spyware and telemetry. But MS doesn’t realize that many people don’t have the money to buy new computers. It’s either food on table or a new computer, and food wins most of the time.

Your only option for those users will be to download the manual updates overnight at least every 7 days or so. This causes more electric use and bills to pay, but at least they’ll have an updated Windows defender. This is what I had to tell all my clients that have slow connections.

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TaskForce141, kandb

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“I heard from a few other tech friends that Microsoft (MS) has deploy a bug into the update to get people to stop using Windows 7 and 8.1. This is their new ploy get people to move to Windows 11 filled with MS spyware and telemetry.”

Never attribute to malice what is more likely to be someone forgetting a setting.  That said, given that these two platforms are not supported it might be wise to investigate third party A/V that still supports 7 or limit your browsing.

Microsoft (MSFT) Q4 earnings report 2023 (cnbc.com)

Someone is still buying something.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Charlie

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Oh, I’m always prepared to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt but I still have fond memories of many Windows 7 users sitting and looking at a “Checking for Updates”  message on their screens for hours or sometimes even days when using Windows Update not long after Windows 10 was released.

It even started “affecting” Windows 8.1 as well.

MS did eventually release a “fix” for it, but it took them a long, long time (and lots and lots of complaints) before they finally did it.

This was followed by the infamous “Unsupported Hardware” message that greeted Windows 7  (and I believe 8.1 as well) users with a 7th generation and above CPU when trying to access Windows Update. There was a simple workaround to enable updates with these CPU’s and Windows 7 and 8.1 worked fine after they were updated.

Their latest shenanigans is the hardware requirements for Window 11. I’m typing this post using a PC with an ASUS H81M-PLUS motherboard and a 4th generation CPU which were both released about 10 years ago. It has Windows 11 Home (22H2 build 22621.1992) on it and works perfectly fine.

The next thing I’ll be watching out for is any “weirdness” that starts happening with Windows 10 as it approaches “end of support” in just over 2 years time. I’ve already had a couple of people tell me they’ve noticed a few small “odd” things happening with their W10 installs lately, but at this stage I might just put that down to “user error”. For now anyway.

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kandb

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The squeaky wheel gets the eyeballs.  Microsoft reacts to their big customers more than their small ones and certainly not to non paying customers.

Sometimes it’s also that items can’t be backported – case in point Server 2016 handles update vastly differently than 2019 and the infrastructure can’t be changed on 2016.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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@MS Guest   –   Your suspicion that MS is being nefarious IS QUITE CORRECT!

 

To entice me (Win8.1pro), MS started to send me Defender and following updates from halfway through ’23.  On 23rd Feb this year the Update crashed my screen resolution leaving me with a 1cm x 1cm blank white square over the word ‘Resolution’.  System Restore proves that it IS the Update and cancelling the Update has left me with a USELESS Resolution page.

MS consecutive Updates August and September 4? years ago cost me a lot of money.  I am sick of MS being God Almighty never being easily available in Google in in MS Support.  I will stop using Windows at the first opportunity.  Btw – have you noticed that most experts are too frightened to criticize MS ??

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Can confirm experiencing the same on Win8.1
My Windows 7 desktop runs Kaspersky and even that had a momentary bug out telling me that the software wasn’t supported and starting properly, but I was able to update it and everything went back to normal.
You know it’s bad when even the third-party AV is running into conflicts with Defender.

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kandb

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Add me to the list. I’ve been having this issue since early July using Microsoft Security Essentials on Windows 7, getting the popup and error code 0x80072f8f.

My solution: after closing the popup, I click on “Update definitions” again and the virus and spyware definitions are now ‘up to date.’

I just did this and the version for the Virus and Spyware definitions is now 1.393.2089.0.

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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TaskForce141, Microfix, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, kandb

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If you run this command do the signatures update? If so you can make a scheduled task to run this every day.

"C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MpCmdRun.exe" -SignatureUpdate

cheers, Paul

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kandb

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Ran without issue and said no updates needed, but Defender itself still says it’s out of date and doesn’t appear to be updating correctly on Win8.1

I am on 1.393.702.0 according to my Defender.

In trying to fix the strange Kaspersky behaviour I had on my Windows 7 device, I once again made it unbootable.
The hilarious part is I JUST had it running and was considering doing an in-place upgrade at the time but I didn’t bother. So after restarting and having my SUR/SFC/DISM fixes take, I get the System License Violation BSoD and, once again, it turned out that running such fixes made things worse.
When things work, LEAVE THEM BE!

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Some more strange behavior today on Win7 and Win8.  Unlike the recent past, on Win7 MSE automatically updated signatures to the most recent ones.  A glimmer of hope appeared so I fired up Win 8.1 hoping for the same but it was not to be.

Instead, on Win 8.1, Windows Defender behaved even more strangely than it has in the past.  This time, instead of the expected failure to update signatures through the UI, my update attempts simply returned without error and indicated no updates were needed even though the signatures were several days old.  Then I ran MpCmdRun to update signatures from a command prompt and got the same result — no updates needed.  Manually downloading and running the signature update from the Microsoft website succeeded in updating on Win 8.1

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kandb

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I can’t understand why MSFT is throwing temper tantrums over a few people still using Win 7 and Win 8.1.  Then again, maybe they think that’s a cool thing to do these daze er – days.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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kandb

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Yeah, I’m in line with all of you that WinDef has not been reliably updating starting around mid July for me.  I check Windows Update every day of the week and continue to get the Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool each month, so far, and maybe one or two days a week will get a Defender update notification.  Most days, nothing.  My scheduled task to check WinDef for updates every three hours has worked for ten years but now, well it doesn’t works.  Not reliably anyway.  Interesting to read that MS may be jacking us around with some new code or a “bug”.  If true, the Jerks.

My Win8.1 ride continues and I want it to especially when I read about the latest MS “updates” for whatever flavor operating system is featured.  I also find my weekly AskWoody newsletter and Susan’s patch update information is of little or no concern for me. I write that line not to convey a haughty, uppity mindset that I’m immune because this can all blow up anytime but that the information does not apply to me or those of us running Win7/8/8.1.  It’s just a fact!  Their input was for years my “go to” place when I was beginning to learn about computers and the Internet and I thank Susan and all of the contributors as I was helped so often by their knowledge and experience.  I continue to pay respectful attention to them.

My Firefox is now on the ESR schedule that will end later in 2024, if I recall correctly, and Mozilla Thunderbird continues to who knows when right now.  Malwarebytes is continuing support too and finally backup to an external HDD is why I’m holding out to the very end which for me will be when Firefox stops support next year.

I’ve gone to https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates for WinDef updating and also Techspot.com; https://www.techspot.com/search/?cx=partner-pub-7395890353660701%3Aj5claj-6kfy&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=defender+update.  Both opportunities have worked with no hiccups.

Happy Computing all!

Bill T in “The River City”

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Steve, SueW, Cybertooth

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As of today I am still getting definitions updated on MSE on Windows 7

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kandb, SueW

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<p class=”p-title-value”>Still getting connection failed and error 0x80072F8F on Windows 8.1, has anyone reported this to Microsoft?
A user on Windows 11 posted a similar issue in March, but the thread was already locked without it being solved…
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/protection-definition-update-failed-error-code/00f00287-ba65-4791-abfb-df4c245198fa</p&gt;

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kandb

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Windows 8.1 reached EOL and is out of support.  IMHO reporting this to Microsoft would be a waste of time.  I doubt that any attention would be given to such a report.

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kandb

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I experienced issues on Windows 7, 8.1 and 10.
imo, the platform is as irrelevant as always, I just specify it to make others aware and that is my daily-use device. My Windows 7 machine had FEWER issues with this, while my Windows 10 device has a completely broken Windows Defender that hasn’t worked for months.
Windows Defender is an independent program, as long as it can run, it shouldn’t matter what version of Windows is involved. Don’t think Defender is EOL.
Hilariously as mentioned below by kandb, the update went without issue today. The error has always indicated a connection issue, not a system issue. Probably M$ fooling around with their security certificates or something.
I am now on 1.395.1519.0 and have ONLY used Defender to run updates.

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kandb

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Since my post on August 4 the MSE WinDef update situation has worked better than not working at all.  That means updates are not arriving several times everyday as once was the case but they do arrive via Windows Update several times a week.  I did change, since Aug 4, my update setting from “never check for updates (not recommended)” to “check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them”.  I’m not convinced that change made any difference but I have gotten one notification from Windows Update that an update was pending and that notification was viewed on my desktop homepage without having to go to Windows Update in Control Panel to manually check.  That was good!  But only one time.  When an update arrives from Windows Update I install it and most times during installation the dreaded “connection failed” error code 0x80072F8F message appears and I close the message and the install completes.  I then check Windows update history and always find the update version number and install date are there and accurate.   Otherwise I manually check each time I come online and sometimes an update shows, sometimes not.  If a couple of days go by without any word from Windows Update I then go to this site for which I have installed a shortcut on my desktop:  https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4733-windows-defender-definition-update/similar/ and download the latest MSE def update shown.  The site is very easy to navigate, safe and works well and fills the gap left by the absence of Windows Update reliability.  While MSE WinDef updating is not reliable the monthly update for Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool shows up each month so far and installs normally.

So, Cormy1 while I didn’t offer a solid solution for getting updates via Windows Update you know what is working for me using Win8.1.  I have not gone to Microsoft for assistance as I agree with EricB’s response and it being a “waste of time”.  Hell, Microsoft has enough problems with current platforms let alone our EOL operation.

Happy Computing!

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Since about mid July Windows Defender updating has been sporadic, occasional or nonexistent for me.  I’ve posted three times on the subject.  Earlier this month, this afternoon and now.  How interesting that today, Aug 24, Windows Update has supplied two updates by notification and I manually updated WinDef one time.  Three updates in one day so far is the best performance in over a month.  A fluke or a fix???  It won’t take long to find out.

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Have you tried running WuMgr to do the updates?
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/60002-guide-to-using-wumgr-for-windows-10-updates/

cheers, Paul

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kandb

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Paul,

I have not looked at WuMgr and have checked out your link.  I’ll take a deeper look at it, though.  Thank you.

After three updates yesterday (Aug 24) I did a manual check this morning as there was no automatic notification.  Version 1.395.1289.0 downloaded and installed.  Quite normal and Techspot.com shows an update dated today, Aug 25, available.  We’ll see how this continues.

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Funny, updates went fine for me today too.
Now on 1.395.1519.0 on Win8.1
I guess M$ has figured out their connection issues.

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Microfix

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Yes, Cormy1 it looks like Microsoft has done something to correct the WinDef update problem or the binary code finally corrected itself.  My Win8.1 has been updating normally since Aug 24 and while I’m not getting notifications of an available update through Windows Update (“check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them”) each time I check WinDef manually, updates download/install with no errors or problem.  Like you I show version 1.395.1519.0 in place at this time.

Bill T

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Microfix

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Fired up the old desktop to find..
Defender updates now seem to be working on Win8.1 Pro x64, Yeah!!

Edit: although the sign-in page shows there are updates available after a system restart, even though the system is up-to-date and defender scanned prior to restart.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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kandb

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Could it be?  Could it be?  Well, yes it could.  That Microsoft has fixed the dilemma.  My Win8.1 scheduled check for WinDef update at 9 am today occurred on schedule and completed normally.  The beat goes on – into the sixth day of normal updating of Windows Defender.  Thanks, Microsoft.

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SueW wrote:

Add me to the list. I’ve been having this issue since early July using Microsoft Security Essentials on Windows 7, getting the popup and error code 0x80072f8f.

My solution: after closing the popup, I click on “Update definitions” again and the virus and spyware definitions are now ‘up to date.’

I just did this and the version for the Virus and Spyware definitions is now 1.393.2089.0.

Same thing continues here, and I use the same workaround, using the “Update tab” in MSE. (I almost always have manually updated at the beginning of each Win session; the few times I have not, it seems to have updated in the background on it’s own once or twice.)

Has anyone come up with a swat for this bug? Tonight the hiccup, the workaround, then:

======================================

Security Intelligence Update for Microsoft Security Essentials – KB2310138 (Version 1.397.586.0)

Installation date: ‎9/‎7/‎2023 9:32 PM

Installation status: Successful

Update type: Recommended

Install this update to revise the files that are used to detect viruses, spyware, and other potentially unwanted software. Once you have installed this item, it cannot be removed.

More information:
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=2007160

Help and Support:
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=52661

====================================

Argh!

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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SueW, kandb

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Say Nibbled To Death,

My latest input is that since Aug 24 my Win8.1 operating system has been getting regular definition updates and there have been no problems or errors noted with installation.  A long time ago I set up a scheduled task to check for definition updates every three hours and Windows Update has downloaded and installed normally each time an update is available since the August 24 date.  Before that time regular updating was basically nonexistent starting in July.  For me, at this time, this problem is fixed.  I wonder if SueW has seen any improvement or anyone else, for that matter, who has experienced the mess since July.  When it was at it’s worst I did use the Microsoft link you posted but then found https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4733-windows-defender-definition-update/similar/ and installed a shortcut on my desktop and used the Techspot site as it was easy and fast and safe.  Post if and when you get some normalcy on your updating situation and how that came to be.  Thanks.

 

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, SueW

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kandb wrote:

since Aug 24 my Win8.1 operating system has been getting regular definition updates and there have been no problems or errors noted with installation

Same here on Win8.1 Pro every day since 29th August.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, kandb

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Microfix wrote:

kandb wrote:

since Aug 24 my Win8.1 operating system has been getting regular definition updates and there have been no problems or errors noted with installation

Same here on Win8.1 Pro every day since 29th August.

Well, there it is; It’s something MSFT aimed at Win 7 holdouts.

(You aren’t paranoid if they ARE out to get you!)  😉

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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kandb

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kandb wrote:

I wonder if SueW has seen any improvement . . .

Unfortunately, not really. Only twice — over the past week — has MSE updated itself. Otherwise, I have been using my workaround in order to update.

I’m glad to see that kandb and Microfix are having success. May it continue!

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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kandb, Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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Thanks, SueW, I was beginning to feel like an exhibit at a Ripley’s Believe-It-Or-Not show! At least I now have some company!!

Think I’ll hang around and see if anyone else has a “Silver Bullet” for this thing besides Kandb; I have this nasty feeling MSFT did something to their network to cause this, as I am VERY conservative about putting any new software on this machine, and have not done so for at least a month before this issue popped up.

(Or maybe I’m just grumpy-had to do a 170 mile emergency run on the freeway this afternoon in my 21 year old car in 95 degree heat, and now it sounds like a rod is intermittently knocking. Not a good day. New motor-$3500 and up. Ow.)

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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Charlie, SueW

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You’re welcome, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, and I think we have plenty of company. I wonder if this still happens because our systems run Win7 . . .

Believe it or not, MSE updated itself this morning! That’s now the third time . . .

(Ugh, I certainly hope your car was rebelling against its emergency run in high heat and won’t need a new motor. I drove my last car for 34 years, keeping on top of maintenance. Whenever I had to make a large financial decision on a repair, I compared that to buying a new or used car. What finally made my decision was when the interior rust was starting to take over. Good luck!)

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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kandb, Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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SueW wrote:

Believe it or not, MSE updated itself this morning! That’s now the third time . . .

OK, it’s just ME they’re after!   :p

(This IS getting weird. Are they reading this forum? I would think not.

I may try the above tweak to the registry to check for updates every three hours if no one else speaks up with trouble. I mean, I KNOW this has to be something Redmond did to cause this, but why it hasn’t trickled down to me I don’t know. Some bizarre network protocol that changed, that makes only users of certain networks experience this?? I’m on $$pectrum.

==================================

(…and thanks for the good auto wishes. Unfortunately, the noises were still [but diminished] there this PM with a cold engine as it warmed up. No OBD2 engine codes detected (yet), so something’s (crank or cam bearing?) going south. I have a fairly decent mechanic who has yet to smile in 5 years so I may emerge from this with at least some of my scalp.

Roger on the repairs-vs.new/used car: At my age, a new car would be ridiculous, and in the current economic climate buying a used car is almost certainly going to be buying someone else’s problem. Crate motor=$3500+ install costs…Used car, certainly with issues=$10,000+…and our 21 year old “ride” is a cream puff visually, garaged  it’s whole life. Now it’s a Grannie and Grandpaw car.

Off-topic, I know… don’t start me on cars! [Owned and worked on 19 of them since I was 16 & was on a pit crew, back when Woolly Mammoth coats were in fashion! :)>>>>> Maybe we can get together on another forum [junk drawer? How appropriate!] at a later date. 35 years?? Congrats!)

================================

Many thanks!

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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Steve, Charlie, kandb, SueW

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Your fairly decent mechanic ought to be able to listen to your engine and tell whether the noise is tappet or lifter noise, or a bad camshaft bearing or crankshaft bearing. Tappets/lifters aren’t that hard or expensive to fix (they can also make some noise without necessarily being bad). Camshaft bearings would be harder and more expensive. Crankshaft bearings still harder and more expensive.

If you don’t trust your mechanic, get a long screwdriver, wrap your fingers around the handle, place your thumb on the top of the handle, and put your first thumb knuckle into the opening of your ear canal. Then put the screwdriver blade in contact with the engine at various places (valve cover, block, timing chain cover, water pump housing, alternator, etc.) and listen. It should be possible to localize the noise and therefore get a good idea of what’s causing it. I’ve used long screwdrivers and even an extended antenna I unscrewed from a car; anything metal and long enough to reach various engine parts will work.

I’d also do – or have done by a mechanic – a compression test on all the cylinders. The readings should be fairly uniform from one cylinder to the next, and you can look up acceptable values for your particular engine. If your engine passes the compression test, then the pistons, rings, and cylinders are likely in good shape and you probably don’t really need a new engine; an overhaul at the worst or just a repair of whatever is causing the noise should be all that’s needed and could save you some significant green.

And just to keep some semblance of staying on topic, when I was running Win 7 and 8.1, MSE or Defender or whatever the name du jour was, would fail to update seeming at random even when 7 and 8.1 were officially supported. The solution was to wait until it fixed itself or to just download the definition updates and install them myself.

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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Roger on all! Yes, sometimes these software things cure themselves!

==========================

I did the “remote noise conduction test” using a piece of 30″ rebar, and I still can’t find it. I’m getting up there, and my hearing is going, so…Also, part of the issue is that the racket is two different noises, and intermittent, and at different temps and RPM’s. (There’s an excellent scene in Das Boot where the diesel engineer checks the motors this way.) We’re currently suffering through a heat wave, and I am NOT going to drive save in cool of the evening. I’m going to minimize driving, too, until the heat breaks.

…and just in case The Laughing Mechanic* should forget, I always remind him that the shop manual is on CD in the glove box when I drop it off. 🙂

(*He’s competent, honest, moderately priced, and re-fixes things for free when he blows it once in a while, but his face just doesn’t have the SMILE program.)

====================================

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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Charlie, DrBonzo

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks wrote:

OK, it’s just ME they’re after! :p

Nope! It’s at least the two of us, as MSE did not auto-update my system this morning! It’s become a habit for me to update my computer almost every morning after I turn it on, and so I’ve become used to doing so.

(Hopefully you’ll find a reasonably-priced solution to keeping your cream puff of a car running for a long time. It sounds like you know more than a few things about ’em :))

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, kandb

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MSFT has conniption fits that there are people actually still using Win 7.  The nerve of us!  I can’t even get Album Cover pictures from them for new additions to my MP3 collection on Media Player 12 on my Win 7.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Steve, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, kandb, Cybertooth, SueW

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Charlie, remember when installing Win7 monthly updates would reinstall Windows Media Player 12 without preserving any of its settings (starting in late 2017)? Eventually the problem went away, even after using the W7ESUI scripts.

However, after installing this past July’s updates (WES 7), it happened again, and I had to reconfigure WMP’s settings! Might this be causing your issue?

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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I don’t remember that happening to me, but then I was only getting the “Security Only” Win 7 Updates from the Microsoft Update Catalog at that time up until the the end of support.  WMP 12 tries to make contact with a website but is unable to connect.  I just thought that was due to lack of support.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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SueW

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SueW wrote:

(Hopefully you’ll find a reasonably-priced solution to keeping your cream puff of a car running for a long time. It sounds like you know more than a few things about ’em :))

Yup, but I’m getting too old to work on ’em! :)>>>>>

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
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"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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SueW

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OK, here’s an intersting tidbit to throw into the mix:

It seems that when WU does the updating in the background on it’s own, all goes well! It’s only when I try to manually update it that the dreaded error dialog bos rears it’s ugly head!

Man, I’ve been spinning on my ear for quite a while on this one. The saga continues…I’ll report back if I see any significant changes. Is this really some kind of a network error, as the dialog box suggests, and MSFT has tweaked their systems so as to produce this? Weird.

===============================

…and for SueW and Dr.Bonzo are still interested, it turned out to be the A/C compressor falling apart! Turns out the sound test was not totally accurate, but then I’ve lost some hearing in the past few years. Sound can also conduct in odd ways too. Anyway, it’s in the shop for that and some other routine stuff. the bill will be smaller, but well over $1K. Better than $4K for a crate engine + R&R. (I’d be glad to take this over to the Junk Drawer if either of you are really into mechanical engineering/automobiles.)

========================

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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Steve, kandb, SueW, DrBonzo

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Interesting twist on the update issue. In my experience it was just the opposite: manual updates worked fine, WU didn’t.

If you’re so inclined it might be time to advance on the “Linux Mint Greenhorn” front.

$1K for a new AC compressor strikes me as reasonable, especially if anything needs to modified for any required changes in refrigerant (retrofit kit, etc.)

FWIW my 12 year old Kia recently started making noise when the AC was turned on. I thought it was goodbye compressor but it turned out it (the compressor) was grumbling that there was no refrigerant in it. A quick inexpensive fix.

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kandb, SueW, Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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And I have WU set to ‘Never’ so it happens when I update manually, with rare exception.

(That’s great news on the A/C compressor (even though it’s still costly). Here’s to several more years in your cream puff!)

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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kandb

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Charlie wrote:

Being 20 something in the 70’s was much more fun than being 70 something in the 20’s.

Charlie,

I can identify.

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SueW, Tom in Az, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, Charlie

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DrBonzo wrote:

Interesting twist on the update issue. In my experience it was just the opposite: manual updates worked fine, WU didn’t.

DrBonzo, SueW and NTDBD, et all,

My latest contribution to this saga is my Win8.1 continues to update manually or when the scheduled task calls for updating (checked every three hours) when an update is available.  The hiccup I have is I do not get a WU notification that an update is available per the setting I’ve chosen.  That has happened only one time since I changed the setting Aug 4.  Not a deal for me.  That updating is occurring is good enough.

And for DrBonzo:  ironic the talk of auto a/c.  I recently discovered a leaking high side schrader valve and replaced same earlier this month.

 

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, maisy2, SueW, DrBonzo

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SueW and DrBonzo, I put up my complete auto adventure in “The Junk Drawer” for your amusement.

…and even after coming out of the repair shop, the laptop keeps belching the same error message when updating virus signatures manually!

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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DrBonzo, SueW

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks wrote:

… keeps belching the same error message when updating virus signatures manually!

Ditto, NTDBD. It’s now become a habit to just click on “Update definitions” a second time and then all is well.

Win 7 SP1 Home Premium 64-bit; Office 2010; Group B (SaS); Former 'Tech Weenie'

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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Unless we switch to another AV, (always possible) I guess this will be an unresolved issue.

Hi ho.

 

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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kandb, SueW

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, maisy2, SueW, DrBonzo

It’s almost one month since my last comment on the subject and I do wish you all were having success with Windows Update supplying Defender updates reliably.  The Defender updates are regular for my Win8.1 and I’ve even had Windows Update indicate an update is available on the desktop home page at startup.  Manual updating works normally.

NTDBD, I wish I could give you an answer that would solve the problem for you then to maybe start looking for the alternative.

Bill

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, SueW

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To update my previous post, I found MSE had automatically updated definitions this morning.

Was having to do it manually until now, in the interim since my post of August 4. Windows 7 home premium.

Best regards

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, kandb, SueW

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Nov 11 2023, and it still is erratic. Even after the repair shop, this remains the only big issue. Sometimes it will update automatically, sometimes not. And always when I do it manually, it barfs the error message. Check it again, all is fine. Insane. If any of you figure this out, remember me, please. 🙂

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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…and the saga continues!

I found an annoyance-free set of workarounds (at least on this machine):

1. If the thing won’t update itself in the background like it should (and where I get no errors, and the task is performed correctly) and you want to do it manually, just hit the “Update” button, _and close the dialog box_! No errors are seen or heard.
2. All proceeds normally in the background.

It doesn’t want to be “watched” while doing a manual update. Who would have thought? A PC with a shyness complex!!

My extremely small gift to the group for the season. 🙂

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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kandb, SueW

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NTDByD

I suppose it’s safe to write that your computer is getting the job done albeit out of the norm.  I wish at this New Year beginning that update installs for Defender are normal for you through 2024 even if they are not normally normal – you know?

My 8.1 continues to hum along getting and installing Defender and performing normally but later this year I will have to decide whether to install Linux or buy a new W11 operating system.  Neither option I’m excited about.

Until next time… be safe and well and happy computing.

Bill T

Mod Edit: Cleaned up your link for NTDByD.

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[Charlie]

Windows 11 or Linux? Either way Kandb, you will have have a new OS and GUI to learn.  IMHO, Linux Mint will be easier as far as the GUI is concerned, and updates are a breeze compared the MSFT updating mess.  Linux Mint has a similar GUI to Windows 8.1, and depending what you use your computer for, you may be able to use the Mint GUI exclusively.

You can also put Linux Mint on an older computer you may have. No Win 11 requirements to meet. I have Linux Mint Cinnamon on two computers and I like it very much.  Just some food for thought.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Charlie.

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Steve, kandb

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Charlie,

Replying to your Jan 9, 2024 post and thank you.  I’ve been occupied with one thing or another and now getting serious about changes I will need to make before my browser is no longer supported in September.  A year ago I was looking at Linux Mint Cinnamon and dropped the idea of installing when Firefox gave us ESR update capability.

I spent some time looking at Linux tonight and think I’m going to go with Cinnamon.  Watched a few YTube videos on how to install and they are helpful.  When it’s time to make the move I’m going to install dual boot keeping Windows for backup and the security of having it until I can be comfortable with the new OS and maybe longer into the future.

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Charlie

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@kandb, I’ve always checked out different versions of Mint (e.g., Cinnamon vs. Mate) by running them in a VM.  I find that gives me a better feel for how they work than reading about them or watching videos.  And installing in a VM gives you some experience you might appreciate when you decide to install on the real hardware.

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kandb

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It’s just my personal opinion or preference but I think the Cinnamon version of Linux Mint is the best without needing a lot of system resources.  I’ve run LMC 19.1 on a 2007 Sony Vaio laptop with only 2 Gigs of RAM and an Intel Core 2, 1.6 MHz CPU.  The only thing I updated was the original HDD to a 250 Gig SSD.  It boots fast and runs great.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Steve, kandb

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Having trouble again with Windows Defender updates for Windows 8.1. When I try to manually update there isn’t any error message; it appears to start to update, but ultimately just stops. Noticed this happening on 2 computers with Windows 8.1 since yesterday. My last successful manual update was 4-17-24. Anyone else having trouble again?

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kandb

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Win 8.1 Defender updates acting up again for me.  It had been OK for a while but attempting to update signatures yesterday failed repeatedly from the UI.  I ended up downloading the signature update file and manually installing them.

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kandb, Sueska

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Yes, I’ve seen the update problem has resurrected itself again and like you it began for me within the past week.  I’ve not checked online for any posts about 8.1 updating but knew I wasn’t the only person affected and was thinking about how soon I’d see posts here.  Sueska, you can use this address:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions/antimalware-definition-release-notes to manually update in lieu of the normal process.  I have used it in the past and did again sometime in the last week.  It’s legit and safe and gets the job done but read the page and understand what you need to do for updating.  I had a successful update this morning and hadn’t been online for several days and did check the above mentioned site to compare update versions from M’Soft and the versions matched.

What’s happened to cause this updating malfunction again I have no clue.  And while updating until this past week and gone well updating still is not as smooth as it was for years.  Happy updating!  Come back with a post on manually updating when you can to let us know if you’re “good to go”.

Bill T

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Sueska

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Yes, I updated the Defender definitions (defs) with the download link and it worked without issues. Later in the evening, I tried to update again using the Defender UI and surprisingly it updated giving me a newer version of defs. Next I updated my other Windows 8.1 using the Defender UI and it also worked. So at least for now, Defender Updates appears to be working ok again.

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It has gone from erratic automatic Defender updating during the last two weeks to no automatic updating by Defender in the last week.  I’m now updating using the link:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions/antimalware-definition-release-notes

The link does the job but why has Defender become the problem again.  Anyone have information or ideas?

 

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As far as my experience is concerned, I only noticed it happening today on my device, which runs Windows 8.1

I can run the update from Defender and it appears to be working, and then just stops halfway through without any feedback.
It tells me it is out of date but when I look at Windows update history, it shows it has installed the definitions update.

Looking at the update history, I also see that the update format has changed since November. We now seem to have “channels”, either “Staged” or “Broad” and all definitions updates have been this way since November.

Windows update and Defender show I am on 1.409.301 on a Broad update.

I’ll check back next week to see if I get a new version to confirm, but to me it seems like purely a visual glitch? The definitions still appear to be successfully updating despite what the Defender UI says.

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kandb

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Cormy1,

WinDef continues to be “hosed” in my Win8.1 World.  Iffy and erratic at best when updating.  I checked for updates minutes ago and Voila!!! (used to call attention, to express satisfaction or approval, or to suggest an appearance as if by magic) – updating worked normally (version 1.409.707.0).  Certainly an exception during the last approx three weeks.

Feel liked reading about “Staged” or “Broad”???  If you’ve not read this then check out the link: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/defender-endpoint/manage-gradual-rollout prior to dropping off for the night.

I continue to long for the old days of usual, standard, normal WinDef updating.  Now I have to leave and reread the article about “Staged” or “Broad” and reacquaint myself with the terms/conditions…

Good night Cormy1 and Mr and Mrs America!

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Two days past my last post WinDef has updated automatically a couple of times but also has not updated automatically.  This morning an updating error screen appeared – haven’t seen that one in a while.  I then used the M’soft link for manual updating: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions/antimalware-definition-release-notes and updating occurred.

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Updating Windows Defender on my Win 8.1 remains borked. Downloading and manually installing updates succeeds.  These manually installed updates are not reflected in the update history.

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And just to keep things interesting my Win 8.1 system Windows Defender updated successfully today without the need to manually download and install signatures.

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kandb, Cybertooth

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EricB,

Yes, I’ve had more successful WinDef updating since my May 7 post than not.  In my case if I’ve attempted a manual update and it did not succeed and then try a while later the update works.  I haven’t had to do the M’soft manual update download/install routine for four days.

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Yes, my experience is currently similar to yours kanbd. If updating fails and I update later as the failure message suggests, usually works.

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Updating took quite a long time but succeeded today, now on version 1.411.93.0

Evidently this is a Broad channel update.

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kandb

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Cormy1,

I also show version 1.411.93.0 when I did an update about 30 minutes ago.  The update completed normally with no hassles.

 

 

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Dealing with 0x80240037 on MSE in Windows 7 and 0x80072F8F in Defender.

Windows 8.1 updated just fine.

Are there workaround needed for Windows 7 at this time?

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@Cormy1, Both Win7 MSE and Win 8.1 Defender updated successfully today.

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Enable TLS 1.2.

https://support.microsoft.com/help/3140245

Install KB4474419 as well.

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don’t ever do what i do :}

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/defenderupdates

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