Replies

1) I think Group A has less hassle than any other, because I’m basically letting MS do what they want. (I feel so cheap and abused! LOL) In all seriousness, again, since I have telemetry set on “Basic” and reports have been that “Basic” in 10 = any telemetry in 7/8, I’m ok with the telemetry. I don’t participate in CEIP.

The alternative is to babysit my systems, worry whether I should update them 2+ weeks after patches are out, worry what the next patch will install, and the next, and the next. I’m less concerned about the security aspect since as you said, I know how to mitigate outside of the OS if the OS is not patched.

We don’t have WSUS on our domain. It’s something that I’d like to implement, but it’s on the backburner due to other more important plans and changes in the pipe through the end of this year and probably Q1 2017. We are granular and pick and choose updates on our Win servers, but basically leave all the workstations to their own devices because there’s just too many to manage over onesie twosie without WSUS in place. (However we did obviously block the 10 upgrade through GP.)

2) Linux is viable for me, from an apps standpoint. I’ve switched from Adobe CS to GIMP/Inkscape/Scribus, and that was my main crutch for staying with Windows. However, the games though are not there, and the VNC issues (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1287171) prevent me from reliably using VNC over SSH tunnel to remotely access my systems at home (in a multi-user household).

(If I may ask) What has kept you from 10 up until now?

For me, it was primarily a lack of choice in regards to Windows Updates. It’s not as easy as it used to be (and should be) to keep updates off your system, if it’s 10. You have to jump through more hoops.

(A minor second to that is the automatic app installs that MS pushes out, with trash such as Candy Crush.)

I was never really concerned with the telemetry per se, because of reports that turning telemetry to ‘Basic’ would revert it to the same levels that earlier versions of Windows use out of the box. Because of that, I’m giving the telemetry a bit of a pass.

Now, the point we’re at now, from all the information available, is that they’re going full blast on dumping garbage into 7 and 8, short of junking up the Start menu, occasionally. Telemetry, CEIP, updates that may break something. The only recourse (up until now) was to pick and choose your updates, only installing what you need and what has been vetted as being “safe”. Now, that option is basically being taken off the table. You can go Security Only going forward, but, indications from several reputable people in the know (including our dear Woody here) is that choosing Security Only is somewhat of a facade, and you’re going to get more than just Security Only updates whether you want them or not. Your only choice there if something breaks is remove the whole patch. All or nothing.

Being that the updates are cumulative, you’re going to install one eventually, and you’re going to get all the garbage eventually (but assumedly by that point, nothing will “break”). Basically, “resistance is futile”.

As I see it, Windows users of anything between Vista and 10 have 2 options now, going forward. Group A, and Group W. You get updates, or you don’t. I’m slightly more ok with not updating at all and running UN-updated, because I know that my browsers will continue to update, my anti-malware tools will continue to update, and my EMET is locked down and will prevent some things as well.

However, based on the choices, the REAL choices that I think we all have…A or W….I’m throwing my hands up. I don’t want to babysit my systems like this. I get paid to babysit hundreds of workstations and hundreds of servers Monday-Friday; I don’t want to do it at home and after hours on the weekends. So, at this point, I just don’t care. Fine. Patch my system. Dump on the garbage. It’s just not worth the struggle for me anymore.

As I said, I’d be gleefully running Ubuntu right now if it wasn’t for 2 things: DirectX, and VNC connectivity issues that I have with Ubuntu (and that boils down to a bug in Ubuntu that is going on 4 years of not being fixed yet, meaning it probably NEVER will be fixed).

JM-long-winded, long posted-HO.

I hate to say it, but at this point, it’s such a cluster**** that I’m just throwing in the towel, full blown. If I’m going to join Group A, I might as well install Windows 10 while I’m at it. This is just ridiculous.

Man oh man do I wish Ubuntu was a real option for me. 90% of it’s there, but the games just aren’t because of the industry’s reliance on DirectX.

[sigh]

Whelp, that’s another update to quit installing going forward. What a joke. MS is making it ever more increasingly difficult to do anything but ‘all’ or ‘nothing’. The lines of Group B are getting blurred to the point that it’s not as worthwhile of a place as it used to be, and it’s more like Group A.

Fair enough, however they’re changing the EULA of that license that we paid for and agreed to without our consent. There are no new EULA’s or prompts for a new EULA acceptance when such updates are installed.

“Remember when patching was easy?”

Oh God yes I do. I miss those days.

IMHO anything related to trusting MS in the post-GWX world is not worth risking. I don’t participate in CEIP but I’m not installing 2952664, ever.

Keep in mind – don’t do ANYTHING at this point.
This is patch day – don’t install ANYTHING.
Give it at least a few days, if not weeks….

Further digestion on my part basically shows things are as many (Woody, abbodi, and I believe also ch100) speculated…

If you get the “security only” update from either the Update catalog or the MS download site, you get only the fixes released for October.

If you get the “security & quality rollup” from Windows Update (most likely), or the Update catalog or MS download site, you get September’s security updates, along with October’s.

IOW if you keep your system up to date (though maybe not on patch day like MS would prefer), you only need the “security only” update.

If you are behind, use the “security & quality rollup”.

The picture is clearer now. At least right now, I’m not as scared as I was yesterday.

Again guys – highly recommend you grabbing the IE Tab Chrome/Firefox extension. You can also use the “Auto URL” functionality to make any tabs going to http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/* automatically open in the IE Tab extension, so you don’t even need to click on the IE Tab button in your browser after trying to load the page in Chrome or Firefox. Very handy!

Alternately, just download it from the MS site. Look up the KB, and check out “Method 2” – those are the links to DL from the MS site, NOT the Update catalog.

Ah, apparently the newest (Security) updates highlighted above are not showing up in that list (which should show all Win7 updates).

According to the site, under “Package Details”, 3192391 replaces:
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3124280)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3139852)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3140410)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3145739)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3153171)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3153199)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3161664)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3167679)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3175024)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3177725)
Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3178034)
Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2846960)
Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3156417)
Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3187022)

I’m interested to dig those all up and see what those were for.

As I suspected, you can use the IE Tab extension to browse the site in Chrome (and I assume also Firefox). Also, you can go here to see all the updates for 7: http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Search.aspx?q=Windows+7 (and then sort by the “Last Updated” column)

Yeah, we just upgraded to a new POS system about 2 years ago, and it’s running on HP boxes running Win7 Embedded POS Ready. I believe our contract on those goes another 4 years and then I imagine at that point the next ones will probably be with the same software company (Epicor), which may be on Win8 Embedded POS Ready by that time.

Our dev team is working on coding something in Access for outside sales to run on Surfaces (instead of laptops like we currently use), but that’s still in the beginning stages.

A part of my process was ditching Adobe and Office. Obviously Office is easy, because there’s LibreOffice (which is good enough for my needs).

Adobe was more tricky, but I’ve been Adobe-less for about a year now, and have had no downtime (other than the initial learning phase which took a few days). Switched from Creative Suite (specifically Illustrator/Photoshop/InDesign) to an Inkscape/GIMP/Scribus combo. Have been pleasantly surprised to see features in all 3 apps that are either not in Adobe yet, or, better implemented than Adobe.

Quickbooks, yes, I believe that’s Win-only. I was hesitant to go from Quicken > MS Money Sunset > something else, but have been real happy with HomeBank after finding GnuCash overly-complicated.

(All the above are available for Linux, but I’m still running them on Win7 since I never fully switched.)

UWP, yeah, blech. A part of me wants Gears of War 4, but I’m not willing to concede the admin ownership to Win10 to get it. (If it eventually comes to Steam/Win7 like Quantum Break, I’ll get it there, but otherwise, I can do without.) It’s a shame that people who want to be more in control of their machines have to resort to running an unlicensed Enterprise eval of 10 LTSB to get a stripped down admin-friendly Win10 like we all deserved with Pro.

Games are an easy mention, since most of those are DirectX (and therefore Windows only). Granted, a lot of games have been ported to Linux and OpenGL, but out of my 1K+ Steam games, less than 1/3 have.

My (anecdotal, unfortunately) evidence is that any time I need an app, I always find one for Windows. Many of them are available for Linux, but not all. When I was in the hoped process of switching from Windows to Ubuntu, I ended up finding out that many apps I rely on are not available for Linux though in some cases, there are suitable replacements. Apps in that list include Greenshot (or ShareX), Irfanview, UltraVNC, Everything. There is also no Google Drive sync app for Linux either.

To be fair, I can’t really name a brand new app that is in Windows, but I would be willing to bet that due to its market share, Windows apps get made and developed more than OS X (or Linux). That’s why I disagree with the statement in the article.