What we know about the Win10 version 1909 upgrade: Easily managed by most; tricky for some

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The details are hairy, but the bottom line is pretty simple. If you start from Win10 1903, you have complete control over when you’re upgraded to Win1
[See the full post at: What we know about the Win10 version 1909 upgrade: Easily managed by most; tricky for some]

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Berserker79, abbodi86, WildBill, Great Lake Bunyip

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My Intel Core i7 7700HQ HP laptop came with Win10 1709, was updated to 1803 when I first used it for the first time, and has since upgraded to 1809 and 1903 as they became available. I assumed that installing the cumulative update on patch Tuesday this month would upgrade it to 1909; but after installing the cumulative update and rebooting and navigating to the Windows Update and Security window, I saw that version 1909 was offered and available to “install now.” I was still on version 1903. So I clicked on the install box and found that there was nothing to download; it just began installing. The install went smoothly and didn’t take very long, compared to past upgrade installations. After rebooting and navigating back to the Windows Update window, I looked at the list of things installed and saw that the aforementioned cumulative update was listed as successfully installed; and the version 1909 feature upgrade was also listed along with the old version 1903 feature upgrade (both) under the first heading for feature upgrades. Curiously though, there was a “(2)” indicated after the version 1909 feature upgrade listing, as if it had been installed twice. But everything seems fine and everything works just as well as it did in version 1903 and none of my settings have been changed, except that I had to turn virus and threat protection back on after the version upgrade. It wasn’t turned back on automatically after the upgrade was done and after rebooting. Version 1903 has been the most reliable version so far with the fewest (none really) problems, so I’m hopeful. My installation is the Home version and I am not a gamer nor connected to any server network other than home wi-fi – just an ordinary home computer user.

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[sheldon]

I am at 1809 pro WIN10.  I set feature deferral to 0 days and hid 1909 via wushowhide.  Then set it to 60 days and hid 1903.  Finally set feature deferral back to 365 days.  When I am ready, I will set feature deferral to either 0 and unhide 1909 and install it or 60 days to unhide 1903 and install this one.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by sheldon.

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But what about upgrading from non-Win10 platforms (Win7, Win8/8.1)?! Do we upgrade to Win10 1903? Or is there a way to upgrade directly to Win10 1909? As you said, 1903 has the lights on the Christmas tree, but 1909 plugs them in. Is there a way to put the lights on the tree already lit?! Win7/8/8.1 is the tree…

Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...

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Use the MCT. I believe it creates a v1909 ISO

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WildBill

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The MCT will, at some point next week, turn out a 1909 ISO.

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MCT already offer and create 1909 ISO

it’s the Update Assistant that wait until November 18

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woody, Kirsty

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Microsoft is blocking the Windows 10 November 2019 Update on systems with certain Realtek Bluetooth drivers

If you are trying to update to the Windows 10 November 2019 Update (Windows 10, version 1909), the Windows 10 May 2019 Feature Update (Windows 10, version 1903), or the Windows 10 October 2018 Update (Windows 10, version 1809), you may encounter an update compatibility hold and receive the message, “Realtek Bluetooth: Your PC has a driver or service that isn’t ready for this version of windows 10. A new version is avialable.”…

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4529832/updating-to-windows-10-version-1903-on-devices-with-some-driver-versio

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woody

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Per MS, update the Realtek Bluetooth driver to v1.5.1012 or later. I updated to the later v1.5.1014 in October, it works on my v1903 and per MS also on v1909 (I’m not updating to v1909 for a few days, waiting for any show-stoppers to be reported in it.)

Same article: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4529832/updating-to-windows-10-version-1903-on-devices-with-some-driver-versio

Microsoft has identified compatibility issues with some driver versions for Bluetooth radios made by Realtek. You will need to update to driver version 1.5.1012 or later to remove this safeguard hold.  Any earlier version of the driver is affected by this issue.

Win10 Pro 20H2,backups with Macrium Reflect home edition

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UPDATE: For those of you who have asked. Nope, I didn’t explicitly cover version 1803. There’s a reason why: The situation with 1803 is a bit more nuanced, and the primary concerns aren’t the same as those for 1909, 1903 and 1809.

In the next few days I’ll have detailed instructions for moving on from Win10 1803, but for now realize that you’re just fine. The next security update isn’t going to appear until December 14. You can peddle on as if nothing untoward has happened.

Unless, of course, Microsoft forces you off of 1803. If that happens, I’d sure like to hear about it.

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[Geoff King]

It was quick ( less than 5 minutes on both machines ) , but that’s because it’s basically 1903, with the KB4517245 being an *enabler* of the 1909 features.

So, more a cumulative update than a feature update, as has been mentioned before.

New features pretty ho hum, as far as I’m concerned.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Geoff King.

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I’m running Win 7 Ultimate, Group B if it matters, updated through October, with KB 4490628, KB 4516655 and KB 4474419.

Maybe I missed something, but I followed the link in the Computerworld article, and ended up with an iso from using the tool, but I don’t know what version it is.  I didn’t have a choice of versions, the tool took me right to iso creation.  I didn’t see a way around the tool.  Most of the files that I saw inside the iso are dated 10-06-19, if that helps.

I’m just wondering what version of Win 10 I got.

 

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woody

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DISM can pick up the version and build number from the install.wim file in the ISO.

Excellent plain-English instructions from Ramesh Srinivasan on WinHelpOnline.

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wrangler, Lars220

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[wrangler]

Thanks, Woody.  So here’s what I got, following the instructions to check boot.wim (my iso included install.esd, not install.wim, since I’m running Win 7:

Index : 1
Name : Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
Description : Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
Size : 1,703,884,476 bytes
Architecture : x64
Hal : <undefined>
Version : 10.0.18362
ServicePack Build : 418
ServicePack Level : 0
Edition : WindowsPE
Installation : WindowsPE
ProductType : WinNT
ProductSuite :
System Root : WINDOWS
Directories : 3933
Files : 16622
Created : 03/18/2019 – 10:10:55 PM
Modified : 11/16/2019 – 12:52:13 PM
Languages :
en-US (Default)

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by wrangler.

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One Machine here got the 1909 treatment, less than 5 Mins so smooth in fact I am still in denial as to whether anything’s really changed save the Winver 18363.476, no settings, no custom Reg Keys or Group policies messed with. Had to download kb4524569 and kb4524570, as I am normally a month behind with patches for 1903.
Its nice having the values for Windows update deferment back again just how I set them before they vanished. Now set to 21 + 365 and now lets see what the first Cumm. update for 1909 brings.
Well nothings blown up or anything melodramatic, Macrium had done its monthly full backup so nothing to really worry about. Got to be honest, well I knew anyway, there’s really no rush to grab this “Service Pack” as there’s nothing earth shattering, the last SP I installed was way back in XP days, (SP1,2,3 I think there were 3 of them all in all??) and that wasn’t fun, somehow missed the Win7 SP1 experience being late to the game and they were already incorporated in the images.

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I’ve been following AskWoody and his superb team of analysts since I made the jump from Windows XP to Windows 7 Pro 64 bit in 2016. While I love Windows 7, I want to “get with the program” by upgrading to Windows 10. I started the process yesterday by downloading the media creation tool (version 1909). It went smoothly until I was asked to accept the license terms to begin installation. I hesitated, then declined. Should I wait for the defcon level to change before I take the plunge?

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Use the Media Creation Tool you downloaded to make bootable install media (DVD or USB).
v1909 was just released a few days ago.
Wait for the reports to come in about any problems.
When the DEFCON number is raised to 3 or above, use those reports and Woody’s advice to determine if you want to go ahead and use the install media to upgrade to Win10 v1909.

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Thanks, PKCano. Appreciate the expeditious response!

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[n2ubp]

Against my better judgement a client requested I upgrade them from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 Pro 1909 on a white box i5 based tower built for them by a local shop. The migration to 1909 failed on the second restart and rolled back to Windows 7. Going thru the logs I discovered 1909 did not like the drivers for the Netgear USB WiFi adapter plugged into the back of the machine. Unplugging this adapter allowed me to successfully complete installation of 1909, but after lunch my client sat down in front of an unresponsive black screen, performed a power on reset and then was stuck in an automatic repair loop. I was able to use system restore to recover from the failure. Event viewer logged errors trying to install Microsoft supplied Nvidia drivers for the GTX 750 video card. I downloaded and installed current drivers from the Nvidia web page and all seems to be working properly (so far). I was not asked to migrate from the local Windows user id to an id linked to an e-mail address even though the computer was connected to the Internet during the process.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by n2ubp.

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[Berserker79]

Thanks as always to woody for the helpful details. This was very interesting in order to figure out how to be prepared if I want to avoid an upgrade to 1909 of my 1809 Home machine until I feel ready for that.

I understand that 1909 is (currently?) offered as an OptionalInstall update and thus it will not show up in wushowhide. Assuming this does not change at a later time (i.e. at some point 1909 becomes non-optional and visible in wushowhide), can someone please expand on abbodi86 instructions regarding the use PowerShell to show OptionalInstall updates?

Specifically, it would be extremely helpful to have step by step instructions (but a link to a page with such instructions would also be fine of course) to guide me through the process of showing the 1909 optional update and hiding it. Thanks in advance!

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Berserker79.

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You can use these lines of commands in powershell to accomplish the mission
https://pastebin.com/KidfFWy8

the lines with # are comments for explanation

if you prefer vbs script
https://pastebin.com/BhMNFQv5

start command prompt as administrator, then execute:

cscript //nologo HideOptionalUpdates.vbs

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woody, PKCano, Berserker79

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[Berserker79]

Thank you abbodi86. This is much appreciated.

I’ve just got one more question: after running in powershell the lines of commands provided in your first link I got a list of updates including two instances of the 1903 feature update and one instance of the 1909 feature update (as I mentioned I’m on 1809 Home). Before I go ahead and enter the command to hide those feature updates, can you please let me know how I can unhide them if/when I change my mind and want the feature updates to install?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Berserker79.

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Interesting, there should be one instance for each

i think these feature updates get renewed (new version, new UpdateID) on each patch tuesday, thus cannot be kept hidden
but i could be wrong

anyway, do you want to reverse the operation and unhide all Optional updates?
or do you prefer to unhide specfic one only?

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The output from the “show updates” command line only provides the name of the updates with no other data, so unfortunately I have no idea how o check what is the difference (if any) between the two instances of 1903 in the list.

I suspect that you are correct in that the feature updates will get renewed and thus show up again on each patch Tuesday: that’s what happened when I was using wushowhide on 1803 to hide 1903.

Anyway, I’d like to know how to reverse the operation and unhide the specific feature updates (i.e 1903 and 1909) only, since I plan to hide only those two. Thanks in advance!

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I updated the pastbin with commands to show more details and hide/unhide specific update

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Berserker79

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[Berserker79]

Awesome! Thanks so much for the updated commands to show more details and hide/unhide specific updates.

Herein below are the details for the three updates that were found:

Apologies that it is not in English, I’m running an Italian localized version of 1809 Home. The title of the first two updates translates to “Feature update to Windows 10 version 1903”, while the third translates to “Feature update to windows 10 version 1909”. Based on the KB numbers, the first two correspond to the September 10 and October 8 versions of 1903 and the third is ofc the current version of 1909. I can’t think of a reason why there are two versions of 1903 in the list, but I’m just going to hide both of them along with 1909.

And here is what I see after entering the hide command and then showing again the details:

After the next Patch Tuesday, I will run the commands again and let you know if a new version of 1903 and 1903 shows up to “replace” the hidden versions.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Berserker79.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Berserker79.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Berserker79.

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abbodi86

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[abbodi86]

You are welcome

all my tests were on 1903, so i only get 1909
i will check 1809 machine later

—
for reference, you can force the updates details locale in any language

after $Session line and before $Result line, add this line

$Session.UserLocale = "1033"

this change it to en-us

here’s mine in italian

https://i.imgur.com/7xEMFlQ.png

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by abbodi86.

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woody

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That command to display the updates details in a different language is very handy, thanks.

And if you have the chance/time to check at your end which updates are visible on a 1809 machine, it’s going to be interesting to see which updates you are offered!

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I checked 1809 Pro, but i only got one instance for 1909

probably because it’s newly installation, i guess your 1903 instances are either cached, or Home edition have slightly different result

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Thank you for doing that check on your 1809 machine. Either of the reasons you suggest for getting only one instance of 1909 makes perfect sense to me: mine is not a new installation (upgraded from 1803 using the 1809 ISO) or maybe it’s just another difference between Pro and Home versions.

BTW, it took a couple of days for this to happen after hiding the 1909 update with the above discussed commands, but now I’m no longer seeing the prompt to “download and install now” 1909 in the Windows Update screen.

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Because Settings Windows Update page has its own scan schedule, not immediately refrected by powershell scans

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I’m on Win10 1809 Home. The advice is –

“If you start from Win10 1809 Home, life’s considerably trickier. You’re probably better off upgrading to 1903”

How do I do that? Windows Update is only offering a feature update to version 1909.

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See this post.

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/1909-update-breaks-audio/#post-2007998

cheers, Paul

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I’m looking into that exact question, here

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/whats-the-best-way-to-move-from-win10-1803-or-1809-home-to-1903/#post-2008468

Should have an article of “best practices” up on Computerworld later this week.

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Paul T

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woody wrote:

DISM can pick up the version and build number from the install.wim file in the ISO

I created a new Windows 10 1909 USB installer using MS’ MCT tool. For interest I followed the WinHelpOnline instructions to query the edition, version and build… and DISM misreported both the edition and the build.

Here’s the console output (I used both an elevated Powershell and an elevated CMD console as a double-check):

Here’s the winver output from a clean install (before connecting to the internet) halted at the OOBE:

Note the discrepancies.

Hope this helps…

PS – It’s just me but I *really* dislike the Start Menu Auto Expand On Mouse Over behaviour change to the 1909 Start menu… which, of course, there’s no UI to change back. It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if MS is just laughing at us end-users.

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PS – It’s just me but I *really* dislike the Start Menu Auto Expand On Mouse Over behaviour change to the 1909 Start menu… which, of course, there’s no UI to change back. It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if MS is just laughing at us end-users.

I think it’s a result/function of the UPVOTES along with the emojis and such. You know, in the Feedback Hub for Insiders.

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In searching the Feedback Hub I can not find any mention of adding the start menu auto-expand. All I see are people asking for the ability to turn this off or on.

--Joe

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THAT has me worried.

I’ve never seen a screwed-up install.esd file.

I’d be willing to bet it’s another symptom of the 1903-vs-1909 conundrum. In this case, the 1909 ISO is screwed up because it’s really a 1903 ISO file, probably with some extra “enablement” garbage. But that still doesn’t explain the flip-flop between Home and Pro.

@abbodi86 – have you seen this before?

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@Woody – Bear in mind that, when creating the USB installer using the MCT, I made 2 changes to the defaults.

1. As per usual, I removed the tick from the Use the recommended options for this PC checkbox so I could change the Language dropdown from English (United States) to English (United Kingdom).
2. Again as per usual, I changed the Architecture dropdown to Both. As a result, the path to the install.esd file is slightly different to that shown in the WinHelpOnline instructions (but shows clearly in the screenshot I provided earlier).

I actually used the MCT twice… once to create an installer using an 8GB USB stick and then again so I had a copy of an ISO for storing away… just in case:

As an aside, I note that looking at the increase in ISO size with each successive version of Win 10, this may have been the last time I’ll be able to store both x64 and x32 installers on the same media without buying larger USB sticks.

Hope this helps…

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woody

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@woody

@Rick Corbett

There is nothing wrong and Dism output is correct

18363 is just fake registry version, can only be seen from live rinnung 1909 system, or if you used Dism to mount and integrate updates into 1909 install.wim

as for the edition misreport, since version 1709, all editions are combined in the same ESD file (during upgrade, setup choose the proper edition that match system edition)

so, if you want to show all editions inside install.wim (or install.esd), run the /Get-WimInfo command without /Index
typically, Core (Home) edition comes at first index alphabetically

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b, woody

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abbodi86 wrote:

so, if you want to show all editions inside install.wim (or install.esd), run the /Get-WimInfo command without /Index

@abbodi86 – Thank you for the info. I tried that and found that ‘Pro’ had an index value of 6:

Another query using 6 as the index value showed:

I don’t understand about ‘fake registry version’ (why is there any need?) but that’s not important.

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woody

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No file exist that is versioned as 10.0.18363.x
all 1909 files are 10.0.18362.x just like 1903

they created that 18363 version just to differentiate 1903/1909
it’s just a few registry values that you can actually change to get any version or build you want in winver window

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b, woody

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Rick Corbett wrote:

PS – It’s just me but I *really* dislike the Start Menu Auto Expand On Mouse Over behaviour change to the 1909 Start menu… which, of course, there’s no UI to change back. It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if MS is just laughing at us end-users.

Yowch.
Someone please verify that Open-Shell-Menu v 4.4.142 with the autoupgrade on-boot task works with 1909?

Don’t have any 1909 myself just yet.

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mn– wrote:

Someone please verify that Open-Shell-Menu v 4.4.142 with the autoupgrade on-boot task works with 1909?

Well, tested this myself. Installed Open-Shell-Menu 4.4.142 and added the on-boot autoupgrade scheduled task. Then upgraded 1809 -> 1909 via predownloaded ISO+SSU+cumulative.

Yeah, it worked, didn’t require user intervention for Open-Shell-Menu after upgrade.

PS Z:\> cmd /c ver

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.18363.476]

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PKCano wrote:

I think it’s a result/function of the UPVOTES along with the emojis and such. You know, in the Feedback Hub for Insiders.

Hmm… surprising.

I wouldn’t know… I’ve never been an Insider and I believe that’s the only way you can provide/see Feedback?

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Being in the Insider program is NOT a requirement. You can use the Feedback Hub with any Windows 10 version (as long as it is not restricted by IT).

--Joe

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woody

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But I believe it’s still the case that non-Insiders can’t see Insider feedback reports, and Insiders can’t see non-Insiders feedback reports? (I’ve always felt this was a crazy disadvantage, and I’ve never been able to find a good reason for it.) I don’t think there’s an easy way to tell which you’re viewing either.

Feedback Hub – Insider and non-Insider accounts cannot see each other’s topics

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woody

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I also dislike the fact that Feedback Hub posts aren’t indexed, at least by Google.

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That does appear to be the case. However, in this instance I searched on two different machines and saw nothing on either to indicate anything was upvoted concerning the auto expand.

This is most unfortunate. There should be some way for Insiders to see non-Insiders feedback. IMO, it is less important to see the other way as quite a bit of what the insiders report is fixed or mitigated by the time the next release hits the pavement. At a minimum some settings about what to show and a visual indication of where the feedback originated should be implemented.

--Joe

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woody, b

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joep517 wrote:

Being in the Insider program is NOT a requirement. You can use the Feedback Hub with any Windows 10 version (as long as it is not restricted by IT).

I could easily be wrong – it was a while ago – but, if I remember correctly, when Win 10 first came out it was only Insiders who could use the Feedback Hub? As I had no interest in being an Insider I’ve always removed the link in Settings as a distraction (as well as ‘Phone’ and ‘Gaming’).

Even when I saw (in Settings > Privacy) choices for ‘Feedback frequency’, I’ve always set it to ‘Never’ to help discourage unwanted telemetry:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
; "Windows should ask for my feedback" - Never

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Siuf\Rules]
"NumberOfSIUFInPeriod"=dword:00000000

As a result, I don’t have any experience of providing feedback… or of seeing what others have written.

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[b]

Rick Corbett wrote:

I could easily be wrong – it was a while ago – but, if I remember correctly, when Win 10 first came out it was only Insiders who could use the Feedback Hub?

Only for about the first year; it’s been available to everyone for 3.5 years now:

Feedback Hub now available for anyone running Windows 10 PC or Mobile

(If you’ve never posted feedback, you shouldn’t whine too much about MS having moved your start menu tooltips and laughing about it.)

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by b.

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Must have been my lucky day[night?]. Platform is a Dell 5566 Win10 Pro, 16GB, laptop  [was] running 1809 [17763.737] with the usual gpedit deferrals to preclude Feature Updates and drivers. I changed the deferral period to three days [this was on the evening of Nov 18]. WU offered KB4524570. I decided to go directly from 1809 to 1909. I had just made a winrestore with Macrium.

Four hours later [yes, four hours] I was on 1909 [18363.476]. Looong process, no problems to recover from, everything seemed to work as advertised, logged in with no issues, then Win ‘had some more updates for me’, finished those and came right back up.

• No Device Mgr problems
• WiFi/Bluetooth works
• Settings seem to be ok so far, at least anything I have used.
• Settings/System/About says 11/19/2019 install date
• QA KB4525419 was installed during the update.
• Enablement Package KB4517245 shows up as installed
• Chrome went to 78.0.3904.97 and no apparent problems
• Latest 1909 SSU was installed as part of the update
• WinVer seems be lacking information about who Win10 is licensed to, basically no information at all about the owner of Win10.

Life is good!…something about living right!

Immediately made a new 1909 ISO and a new Macrium winrestore image.

Win11 Pro desktop [2], XPS 8950 23H2/22631.4169, Optiplex 7090 23H2/22631.3880

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[EP]

“Chrome went to 78.0.3904.97 and no apparent problems”

your Google Chrome app is no longer the latest version, desertdad. you should have gotten version 78.0.3904.108, which came out Monday 11/18

edit: just upgraded my dad’s Toshiba Satellite C55dt touchscreen laptop from Win8.1 Home to Win10 v1809 Home this past Wed 11/20 using a 1809 refresh ISO. After installing the Nov 2019 cumulative update for 1809 which was KB4523205 (build 17763.864), rebooted and checked for updates, it showed the Feature Update for Windows 10 version 1909 along with the Download and Install prompt in the WU settings window. I have not actually attempted to upgrade directly from 1809 to 1909 yet

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by EP.

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When i was playing with OptionalInstall searching, i noticed something worth to mention

if you set feature update deferral (i.e. at least 1 day), 1909 OptionalInstallation deployment changes to Installation deployment
meaning, when deferral days are over, 1909 will be presented and pushed as regular update

changing deferral days back to 0 will not restore the OptionalInstall status, the only way is to reset the whole Windows Update database (DataStore.edb)

not that anyone would defer it for few days, but just for clarification

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woody, PKCano

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