PC user confused by Mac OS names and versions (and updates)

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I’m on the brink of buying my first Mac but in researching whether there are Mac versions of the software I use, I find I’m really confused by the Apple OS naming/versioning. Does each new version also get a new name? I’m a longtime iPad user so I’m used to versions just being numbered. However when I looked at one software product, the vendor said they only support “2024: macOS Ventura 13 or later” – so if I buy, say, a brand new MacBook Air, would it support this product?

Also – separate question – what is the Apple OS update experience like compared to the PC user experience? The iPad/iPhones process seems so smooth and simple (mostly), but I’d appreciate some reassurance (or warning!) about the Mac OS process, so I don’t have an “out of the frying pan…” experience!

Many thanks, Peter

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AKB2000014 – the top of the thread is current information on Apple OSs. The thread has been around for a long time, so the current comments are toward the bottom – scroll down. What you won’t find is the moaning and groaning going on each month with updates.

I run many non-Apple Apps on my Macs: Firefox, Waterfox, Thunderbird, Libre Office, Kindle Reader, Adobe Reader, Calibre, VLC Player, TrendMicro. MS Office, Edge, and Chrome are also available (among many others). I use Parallels Desktop to run Windows 8.1/10 on Intel Macs and Windows 11 on ARM on Apple Silicon Macs in VMs (hardware requirements for storage space and RAM are necessary).

You are familiar with the System Settings on iPhone/iPad. Well here’s the System Settings on macOS 15.2. Look familiar?

I wrote a series of Topics on macOS some years ago, but many will still show you settings that will make it look similar to Windows. Some of the information on Finder (Windows equivalent of File Explorer) is found here and here and here and here.

If you need help setting up or figuring out how to do something, just ask.

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Myst

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Great info – thank you! I will read through and look up all the references including all the apps you mention. I assume the Parallels Desktop is a Windows emulator – which sounds like it would be really useful! Thanks also for the reassuring comparisons – I didn’t think it should be too hard to transition especially have experience with the iPad, but it’s good to get extra reassurance.

Peter

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Parallels is Virtual Software that allows you to run (a legal copy of) Windows in a Vritual Machine.

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peterb

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A new Apple device will have the latest/current version of the OS/iOS. The versions numbers are sequential: 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15, etc. macOS names are current different California locations chosen by Apple: Mojave=11.x, Ventura=12.x, Big Sur=13.x, Sonoma=14.x, Sequoia=15.x.

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OK, thank you – I wasn’t sure if the OS names meant they were for specific hardware exclusively, each with their own set of version numbers, but I see now that Apple just names each new major version as well as giving it a sequential number. I assume therefore that software written for “Ventura 13 or later” would also run on Sonoma and Sequoia, so that’s good.

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The default Apple programs are updated from the App Store for free. The third-party apps  (like Firefox, Chrome, Office, etc) have to be updates in the same way you do on Windows PCs.

 

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peterb

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I suggest buying the most expensive macBook Air you can afford. You’ll want the larger capacity SSD and more RAM that you’ll get for the money. The macOS updates come out roughly every 6 to 8 weeks and tend to be about 1.5 GB. I’ve got 2 2017 Macs, an iMac with 8GB RAM and a 1TB HDD, and a macBook Air with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD. The iMAC is a total slug with updates; it takes 1 to 2 hours, typically. The SSD on the MBA makes a huge difference as it typically takes between 30 and 45 minutes. I don’t think you can buy a Mac without an SSD anymore, so that’s good. I’m not sure whether you can easily upgrade RAM or SSD after you buy a Mac. Some models are upgradable but others aren’t, so don’t buy with the intention of upgrading it later unless you know it’s doable.

Also, don’t go into buying a Mac with the idea that everything will be a bed of roses regarding updates and patches. My MBA has been relatively trouble free, but on 2 occasions an update resulted in a significant slowdown in boot times. It seemed to fix itself after the next update but it was a definite annoyance. On my iMAC the software updater failed a couple times making it impossible to install an update. None of the “solutions” I found on the internet worked, and I ended up having to figure out how do to the update manually, which in my case was fairly difficult to do – quite a bit harder than just going to a MS catalog and downloading and installing a Windows update (at the time there was no standard place from which to download an update; the app store didn’t have it nor did any Apple site purporting to be a software download site, but I finally found a non-Apple site that did, although it was as I recall more than just an update – it was an entire point release of the current macOS). I also had an issue when the support for High Sierra ended and I wanted to upgrade to the next version, which was Mojave. No matter what I tried Apple would not let me do that and I ended up being forced to upgrade to Catalina. So much for having control over my computer.

Nothing in the preceding paragraph is intended to start an argument with folks who contend that macs “just work”. I’m sure they do for many people just as I’m sure for many people Windows “just works”. I’m just saying what my experience has been. For a bit of context, I don’t consider myself to be a techie, but I do consider myself to be several notches above “Joe User” (no disrespect to Joe intended).

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@DrBonzo Good advice.  The iMac I bought in 2020 was a base model 8GB with HDD.  I didn’t know better at the time.  It has been reliable since then, but I did have the HDD changed out to a SSD last year and that was like getting a new, faster Mac.  Overall, getting a Mac instead of another PC was a decision I’ve never looked back on.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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peterb

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I’ve always found that, buying what is JUST functional today, leaves me short a year later – whether I’m buying Windows OR Mac. It may cost you more initially to buy for the future, but it’s cheaper in the long run because the device will last longer.

In 2011, I bought an iMac with 8GB RAM and a 5400RPM 512GB HDD. It has long since been out of service because the performance was no longer acceptable.

In 2012, I bought a MacBook Pro with an i7 processor, 16GB Ram and a 512GB SSD. The average back then would have been 4-8GB RAM and a smaller or equal 5400RPM HDD. That laptop is still in service in spite of maxing out on Big Sur – fast, beautiful display, running current apps and TWO Parallels VMs (Win8.1 and Win10 also up to date).

 

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satrow, pmcjr6142

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Is there any potential issue with the type of hardware – Intel vs. Apple silicon – affecting software’s ability to run? y

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Good advice indeed – thank you. I’m surprised Apple Support couldn’t help with the update issue you had, having been led to believe that unlike MS Support you can actually reach them and talk to them, even without an active AppleCare contract?

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I have only had to contact Apple Support infrequently, but never had a problem.
I have an Apple Store where I live. Haven’t had to visit often, but when I did I’ve walked in and got help with operational problems on site without cost. “This is the what’s wrong” (usually helping someone with iPhone problems I can’t find the settings for) and they tell/show me what to do to correct it.

I’ve never had to repair any of my Macs/iPhones for hardware failure.  I would buy Apple Care only if I was using my devices in a rough situation (laptop for work going on the job, carrying my iPhone doing sports, mechanical work). But, at my age, I’m long ago retired and not doing that kind of thing anymore.

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peterb

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PKCano wrote:

What you won’t find is the moaning and groaning going on each month with updates.

That’s true.  Unlike the PC horror stories you read each month on this Forum.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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peterb

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Another question comes to mind – I was surprised to see that the MacBook Air only offers TouchID and not FaceID. Does anyone have experience with it and can comment about ease of use, or even how it works? I had an old iPhone with TouchID and it was pretty awkward to use – is this the same type of sensor or is it hopefully a newer better version?

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DrBonzo wrote:

I’m not sure whether you can easily upgrade RAM or SSD after you buy a Mac. Some models are upgradable but others aren’t

No current Macs are upgradable with SSD or RAM therefor customers should buy a Mac to last for some years (bigger SSD double the RAM )

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peterb

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peterb wrote:

Is there any potential issue with the type of hardware – Intel vs. Apple silicon – affecting software’s ability to run?

Apple doesn’t sell Intel Macs anymore.

You may get a second hand Intel Mac which isn’t advisable as Apple to stop support soon.

Software written for Intel Macs (that hasn’t been ported to Apple Silicon) will run on Apple Silicon in emulation (Rosetta 2)

Windows OS running in VM on Apple Silicon is for Qualcomm CPUs (not the standard version)

* Important. Apple has upgraded all Macs that came with 8GB RAM to 16GB RAM with no increase in price. So pay attention not to buy a previous version with 8GB RAM.

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peterb

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peterb wrote:

Is there any potential issue with the type of hardware – Intel vs. Apple silicon – affecting software’s ability to run? y

Something to be aware of is that Apple dropped support for Intel 32-bit software a few years back. Realistically this is only going to impact you if you want to play older games, as almost all modern software is at the very least Intel 64-bit and very often Apple Silicon native, but I thought I’d mention it in case it applies to you.

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Thank you – for some reason I thought they were maintaining two hardware lines but I guess they’ve switched completely to only Apple silicon, so that eliminates another concern!

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peterb wrote:

I thought they were maintaining two hardware lines

Apple still updates Intel Macs Like MacBook Air 2018 or iMac Pro 2017 with security updates. These also run MacOS 15 Sequoia.

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The 2018 Intel processors are able to update to Sequoia 15.x.
But my 2017 Intel Kaby Lake i7 iMac is stuck at Ventura 13.7.2.
I think only the 2018 8th gen Intel Macs meet Sequoia requirements. And I suspect that will be their last version update. Apple is in a push to Apple Silicon (ARM) processors.

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Alex5723

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Peter – I JUST did this on Black Friday. After 35 years of intense power using Windows, bought a MAC and became bitextual.

Some things  amaze me and I love them. Some baffle the hell how they could be this poor after years of development. Drives me nuts it feels like Hebrew with new desktop icons populating on the right rather than left. Finder will not keep list view columns the same from folder to folder. Lots….

I have 266 apps and utilities on my PC.  I can’t accurately quantify, but for sake of conversation I will not need maybe 40-or 50. I cannot find anything near as good for MAC in maybe 12-20 cases. Example, Faststone Capture. Nothing close. Macrium Reflect much better then the 3 most popular disk image programs for Mac.

My MAIN motivation for this is Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop. My PC only 7 years old, but denoise takes 11-15 minutes per image. 30 Seconds claimed on the Mac, though I have not gotten to install and test for myself. I LOATHE that I cannot update RAM or SSD so struggled with what was enough. Bought what I considered the sweet spot for price and performance and still wonder if I bought enough RAM. And then bought a great Thunderbolt 4 Dock.

An adventure….

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I wrote a series of Topics on macOS some years ago, but many will still show you settings that will make it look similar to Windows. Some of the information on Finder (Windows equivalent of File Explorer) is found here and here and here and here.
Yes, I know the posts are old, but settings are similar.

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thank you – these are most helpful (although the first link gives 404) – it looks like I should be able to transition fairly easily.

Peter

 

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Try again. It should work now.

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peterb

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most interesting – although your app count is a bit scary! I use Lightroom and PS as well so this is helpful in my migration plans. I’ll have to check the budget very carefully if I’m to splurge for the optimum RAM and SSD sizes.

 

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I’m not your average user 🙂

So, a little behind my choice of Macbook as I do not want to upgrade again for a long time, but also budget conscious!

Macbook Pro

M4 Pro rather than MAX. Felt like the sweet spot, but then 1TB SSD no matter which I did. The hardest choice was RAM, especially since Mac M cores for  CPU and GPU work so differently. And Apple charges absurd amounts for additional RAM. So I went with 24 GB since the upgrade for this model would have been 48. If 36 I think I would not be questioning that choice at all, but not a choice. And mostly concerned for Lightroom. Not much else should tax the RAM as hard. For an average user, 16 should even be enough.

 

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two more “experience” questions – how is the device driver experience e.g. for printers? does Aple supply them or do you have to get them from the vendor? Also are Macs free from the BSOD risk? I assume so but….

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Never had a BSOD on any Mac.

Macs sense network-connected printers and offer drivers/software. System Settings\Printers & Scanners:

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Ah, music to my ears – thank you so much for all your help! I’ll be reviewing the specs for a new machine over the holiday!

I was originally thinking MacBook Air as an entry level “get my feet wet” machine, but after reading everyone’s comments I’m inclined to go for the beefier MacBook Pro with a bunch of RAM and large SSD and completely replace my main PC.

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Do you have recommendations for backup software? I currently use Macrium Reflect  which I find doesn’t support the Macs. What I like about Macrium is their Image Guardian that prevents anything from tampering with your local HD backup, but I haven’t found anyone else that offers this.

I also use IDrive which does run on Macs, so that helps. I did read about Time Machine and it sounds fine, but I prefer both local and cloud backups for safety. I’m wondering though, where Macs seldom BSOD and don’t have the Windows Update insanity, then maybe image backups are less important?

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Mac is much different I have just learned. If the SSD is bad in a Macbook, you CANNOT boot to an external drive or USB. Nothing. So MAC backups fall into two categories (very different than PC and I will miss Reflect as well): Sync to sync files and disk image which might be worthless with a  drive failure. The fix is a motherboard replacement (!!!) or a new Macbook (!!!!) Google all this.

So, what I am going to do is Time Machine to external USB connected to my dock and maybe every 4 hours. I think every hour is much too much.

Yup, this all surprised me.

The poplular apps are Carbon Copy Cloner, SuperDuper and ChronoSync.

 

BTW, I have not yet decided and likely will not for a month otr two, if the Mac can replace my PC or just sit side by side.

 

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For backing up locally the best is Time Machine. It backs up everything. You can use Apple hardware for the backup storage location, but you don’t have to. Several of the major storage manufacturers have drives that can be formatted to serve as Time Machines. I use Seagate external HDD, and they can be used for Time Machine (as well as other brands).

There are several common third-party backup software: Carbon Copy Cloner. Super Duper, Backblaze, Paragon ToolBox,  EasUS Todo Backup, Acronis, CloneZilla. You should read about what and how they backup and make your decision on what you need.

You can use a combination of local backup (for everything) and iDrive (for data backup).

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Does not back up EVERYTHING. Does not backup the operating system. They expect you to reinstall if restoring a drive.

 

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That brings up the topic of data migration which has me scratching my head – external drives that I could use to move data require different formats for PC and Mac so I can’t just copy files to one and hope to plug it into the Mac and copy them off. I do have a NAS which I see will support both Mac and PC access simultaneously, so that’s good. However I have an 8TB mirrored external HD and I’m wondering how to move all that data before I move the drive over and have to reformat it. Potentially I could copy it to the NAS but I have to check if there’s enough space. Is there a better way?

 

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I use Seagate external drives for backup. Segate provides Paragon NTFS for Mac free. Installed on my Macs, I can read/write files to both Windows and Mac without changing the format that the drives came with. This is the latest I bought for backup.

Amazon – Seagate 8TB external HDD

If you use this drive for Time Machine, it does have to be reformated. If you use it for data backup (with Paragon NTFS for Mac installed), you do not have to reformat. It shows up in Finder in macOS and in Explorer in Windows as read/write.

You need a USB-C to USB-A adapter depending on your hardware.

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That’s amazing! Basically an NTFS driver for the Mac! Looks like they don’t yet support the M4 silicon (per Paragon’s website) but I’m sure that will follow soon. Thank you!

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What you see above is on an M2 Max 17″ MacBook Pro. Have been using the software since running Macs with Windows VMs, needing both Apple file system and NTFS.  I am fixing to set up an M4 Pro Mac Mini after Christmas. Will let you know how it goes.

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peterb

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Just a word to quell some of the misinformation. I have never had a Mac go belly up. I am still running a 2011 13″ MacBook Pro and an 2012 15″ MacBook Pro, both of which are stll running well with SSDs (as are my 2017 iMac4K and 2020 M1 MacMini).
The only problem I have had with a Mac was self induced – choosing the wrong hardware to start with. I chose a 5400RPM HDD for my first iMac – should have been an SSD. The performance finally bit me – not a crash.

When you choose a Mac, think for the future. The life of an SSD is dependent on read/write. If you buy the minimum (256GB) it will exceed the maximum read/write in a shorter time. Choose MORE than you think you need. The amount of RAM limits the amount space that the OS and programs have to work. Each year the new OSs and programs need more RAM to operate efficiently. Choose MORE than you think you need. 8GB RAM used to be a lot, today it is the minimum for a slow computer. Today 16GB is probably minimum – think ahead. My 2011 and 2012 MacBooks have 16GB RAM (and still are fast with the older OSs).

If you want long life (2011 -> 2024 = 13 years) – think ahead and choose accordingly.

 

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peterb, satrow

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Once again I will submit a somewhat different experience. Never had a BSOD, but I did have a grey screen of death on my 2017 iMac when it was running High Sierra and I was installing a security update. It was fixed easily enough by forcing a shutdown with the power button, waiting a couple minutes and booting up again with the power button, whereupon the update installation resumed successfully.

I’ve installed 2 printers on the iMac, an Epson AIO, for which I downloaded software from the Epson website, with no issues. A Canon AIO was not recognized by the iMac and hence not offered any drivers/software. At the time the only software for the iMac on the Canon website was for a macOS version 2 or 3 versions older than High Sierra (Yosemite IIRC). Fortunately that software worked fine.

I installed the same 2 printers on the macBook Air in the same manner as above. Unfortunately the installations got wiped out when I upgraded from Mojave to Catalina; I never bothered to reinstall them.

All this happened several years ago on Intel processors. Hopefully things have improved with newer versions of macOS and the so-called Apple Silicon.

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peterb

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peterb wrote:

I’m inclined to go for the beefier MacBook Pro with a bunch of RAM and large SSD and completely replace my main PC.

Do you need a portable Mac ? If not, go with the Mac Mini for a fraction of price (From $599).
You will need to add your own keyboard mouse and display (many MacBook users use 1-2 external displays)
Don’t invest in installed storage. 256GB SSD is enough. Invest in an external Thunderbolt SSD.

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peterb

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rebop2020 wrote:

Does not back up EVERYTHING. Does not backup the operating system. They expect you to reinstall if restoring a drive

I don’t know about this…”EVERYTHING”.  Earlier this year I replaced the HDD on an iMac with a SSD and then restored the iMac with my Time Machine. Or the technician did.   Everything was there on the now SSD iMac.  Settings , Apps, Docs, etc.  It was exactly the same except it then had a SSD.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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https://support.apple.com/en-ng/guide/mac-help/mh35860/mac

Important: Time Machine doesn’t back up system files or apps installed during macOS installation.

 

 

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rebop2020 wrote:

Important: Time Machine doesn’t back up system files or apps installed during macOS installation

@rebop2020 I’m checking with the Tech that did my HDD to SDD swap out.   How did I not lose anything.  Did he reinstall the OS and then use Time Machine?

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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Reinstalling downloads the OS before restoring from Time Machine. Apple does that. I’ve never witnessed so can’t give more details, but Google is your friend.

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@rebop2020 Well, you’re right.  In my case the Tech, not at Apple but a very good outside person, did a clean install of the OS after removing the HDD and installing a SSD and then migrated all the Time Machine files.  I did not lose anything.  Another useful bit of knowledge from Ask Woody.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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A little more info from my Tech…”For a little more information, Time machine creates a mini version of the OS on the backup drive and makes it bootable. So you can boot from a backup drive and it will connect to Apple’s server to reinstall the OS and then migrate your files to it”.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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Yes, Apple works that way. You can clean install the OS and not have to stand on your head for drivers and tweaks. And Time Machine backs up everything else you need to back up.

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peterb, pmcjr6142

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peterb wrote:

it looks like I should be able to transition fairly easily.

Look at : 2000020: Mac Guide for Windows Users Wanting to Switch topic

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peterb

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