Windows 11 is rolling in – and I’m rolling out (of Windows)

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I have been a Windows user since DOS days (Well, you get the idea)
I have bought Windows computers and I have built Windows computers.
I have been in the Windows 10 Insider program since October 2014, before Win10 was released.
I have had Windows installed on multiple hardware platforms over the years up to and including Windows 8.1.

I bought my first Macs in 2011 and started migrating my Windows installations into Parallels VMs. At this point, I have left Windows installed on hardware behind and now run Win7, 8,1, and 10 only in VMs.
I have dug in to all the past Windows OSs and have kept up with the Win10’s changes over the past 6 years.

But I have become SOOO tired of Win10’s constant churning, idiotic upgrade cycle, patches to fix patches to fix patches, changing terminology just to confuse its customers, refusal to listen to its Users, and outright deception of its public.

NONE of my i7 processors, minimum 16GB RAM, discrete graphics, minimum 512GB SSDs are worthy of running Microsoft’s new Bauble in a VM. Not even my 3-year-old Kaby Lake i7 7700, 32GB RAM, Radon Pro iMac4K. Even if they backtrack and allow the 7th generation Kaby Lake processor. No TPM. No Safe Boot. Probably no other stuff they require.

Yes, they condescended to allow my Win10 Dev channel Insider Preview Build 21390.2025 to upgrade TEMPORARILY to Windows 11 this afternoon.

I looked through it.
Everything is the same, even the settings seem not to have changed. It does LOOK different – they got rid of that garish neon blue eye-killing windowed background and the “Live Tiles.” The Start Menu now sits in the middle of everything and gets in the way. There are, Oh! My!, ROUND CORNERS (I thought “corner” implied 90 degrees). And rearranged settings/categories to make things more confusing (to me) (AGAIN). Open Shell even seems to run OK (after you answer “Do you want to let this s/w run on your computer” for every third-party program you open. This justifies a new VERSION?

IMHO They’ve just put more lipstick on the pig.

Anyway, this afternoon, I bought my first M1 MacMini. It has an ARM SoC and won’t be running Windows VMs.
I’ve started archiving my 13 Parallels VMs (in case I ever want to go back to the chaos that Microsoft seems so adept at creating).
I will keep the Win8.1 VM on my laptop (Haswell i7, 16GB RAM) because I need Windows for the Dactronics/Meet Control software necessary to run the scoring for the local Univ. Diving team’s meets. The Univ. coach and I will retire about the time Win8.1 runs out)
I will keep a Win8.1 VM on my iMac4K (Kaby Lake i7, 32GB RAM) because I use it as the main (mostly offline) repository for my personal data. Easy full disk image – copy the VM to a backup drive.
Win8.1 doesn’t have problems.
I may keep one of my debloated Win10 VMs just to see if it can remain fairly stable.

*************
On the whole though, Windows 11 is rolling in – and I’m rolling out.
Get a Mac. You’ll never go back.
(Or Linux will probably do just as well)

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I’m with you PK. I’m actually seriously considering retiring. I think I’ve finally had enough and I’m getting too old! Maybe I’ll go push baskets at Walmart or something.

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Fred

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@The Group

I agree that, for the average user that simply wants to keep things secure, it’s a like a pain-in-the-butt part-time job.  I seem to spend 25% of my reading, simply trying to figure how when and how to apply a patch.

Question PKCano:  Isn’t the Apple “Walled Garden” just a bit too high.  I mean to say:  while Apple supposedly “takes care of you”, the “agreement” is that you are “all-in”.  [Not bashing Apple here at all].  Plus, I believe their EOL is roughly 7 years of support.

So, isn’t it the same ol’ stink with a different perfume?

Mike

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FYI – My oldest Mac is a 2011 13″ MacBook Pro (still has slot DVD player and lots of ports) with a quad i7 Ivy Bridge, 512 SSD, and 16GB RAM. It came with a spinner HDD spinner and 4GB RAM which I upgraded. It is running 64-bit MacOS Catalina, and where it is not eligible for Big Sur and later, it will still get another 2 years of security updates. It has not wrecked with each of the OS upgrades I have done in it’s 10 years of service, it is still extremely fast with good graphics. By the time it is retired (in another couple of years) it will have given at least 12 years of GOOD service. I’m not complaining.

I have bought, as well as built, Windows PCs in the past. You have to be able to configure a Windows PC b/c all Microsoft provides is the OS. Vendors use whatever h/w they so desire, and DIY is an unbelievable conglomeration of mine-is-the-best combinations.
I have never felt the need to configure my Macs other than adding RAM (to the old ones that you could) and the one SSD to the 13″ MBP. I buy the specs I need, and the service I get out of the desktop/laptop is well worth the “Apple tax” (which isn’t all that much, considering).

My 2012 Ivy Bridge i7 MacMini (16GB RAM, 1T HDD+128 SSD Fusion drive, discrete graphics) runs, at the moment, 4 Parallels VMs with Win7/8.1/10/Insiders.
And all 5 of my Macs run the same s/w I run on Windows – MS Office, Libre Office, Firefox, ThunderBird, VLC, Adobe Reader, etc.

And the Upgrades/updates don’t Blue Screen my machines.

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I totally agree that maintaining a windows computer is like a huge pain-in-the-butt part-time job (pushing to become full-time J-O-B, every time I turn around there’s something else I have to address!). I hate that it takes up so much of my time. I’m better than average technically (which really doesn’t take much because most people have zero knowledge of computers, the internet, security and how it all works) but, I am not as technical as most people here. I so much appreciate the support I get on askwoody.  And although I have been able to figure things out. it is a struggle. And I think why, why does it always have to be such a struggle!??! (This is an existential question, probably more appropriate for the rant forum, but, aren’t these darn computers supposed to make our lives easier??)  It is great if you are a tecchie and know how to find things, fix things, do things and understand all this stuff, but it’s complicated!  It’s hard for me to keep up. I like some tech stuff, but I’m tired of all the MS BS.

I agree as stated here that Apple is not a bunch of angels, but  I decided a while ago to make the cut to Apple.  I have been procrastinating. Now, Windows 11 won’t run on my computer and the clock is ticking, albeit slowly ; )

Then Voila! New iMAC!! I was going to get the new imac, then I saw this https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/the-new-imac-desktop-has-gone-ultrathin-and-lost-functionality/

Not happy about it….. I guess I can look for an older Mac (Refurb). Refurb means closer to EOL or maybe a Macbook. I currently have a Dell Latitude. I don’t know, I have to do more research. Suggestions/advice are welcome! I like the iMAC bc I think one gets more bang for the buck, but I don’t want ultra-thin at the expense of function. (that is the way things are going).

I have an IPAD & Iphone, so an Apple computer would be a nice addition to the mix. I will continue to use O365. I like the office suite, I use Onedrive, Outlook, Word, Excel (sometimes ppt). Outlook has been my email for years. It runs well on my IOS devices. (This is one area where I think MS is much, much better. I have used Pages and Numbers, not as extensively as the O365 apps, but I have found Word, Excel to be far superior in form and function than their Apple counterparts).

PK you say you are archiving data – I am not familiar with how that all works, but I was hoping I could keep my Dell as I may need to access stuff on it (of course, I will migrate my data, but I may need to access stuff). I would not connect it to the internet, as it would rapidly become out of date. But I thought if I boot up the Dell on occasion, as long as I don’t connect to the internet, it’d be ok?? (I currently use Macrium Reflect (paid subscription) and have Carbonite for backup). I don’t know how that will work with Apple computer. Another thing I have to figure out! There’s always more to be done! I am hoping to gain back some time currently being spent on MS and its escapades once I have made the switch to Apple.  I just have to get going and do it!

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I have found no problems using my Macs. They run most of the software that also has Windows versions. The updates and configuration require a lot less intervention. And the only loss of functionality I see is the inability of Windows to run on the ARM chip.

What I am archiving are the Windows Virtual Machines that run on my Macs, not my data. I have 14 VMs with a combination of Win7, Win8.1, Win10, and Windows Insider. Several of them I use almost every day. And some are used in order to keep up with the changes being made for the Win versions (AKB2000016 is an example of what I use the knowledge for).

MS has exclusively eliminated Win11 from running on my Mac VMs with the restrictions they have imposed with the new version. My new M1 MacMini will have an ARM based SoC processor, not compatible with Windows. So the exclusion seems to be a mutual thing. Sure will be less time consuming for me.

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aha, then you may wish to consider trying out a linux distro in your existing parallels VM with lotsaspace..
Linux Mint Cinnamon? much adored by many windows/ex-windows/Linux users (and NO patch problems). I’m sure your valuable input would be appreciated by many on here who wish to move away from MSFT going forward 😉

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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PKCano

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dmt_3904 wrote: “Not happy about it….. I guess I can look for an older Mac (Refurb). Refurb means closer to EOL or maybe a Macbook. I currently have a Dell Latitude. I don’t know, I have to do more research. Suggestions/advice are welcome! I like the iMAC bc I think one gets more bang for the buck, but I don’t want ultra-thin at the expense of function. (that is the way things are going).”

The solution is either several dongles (for example USB-A to USB-C)  attached to the iMac (or MacBook Pro), or else attached to the devices you would like to connect to the iMac with cables. But a somewhat better solution is to get a connector’s hub that connects to the iMac with a single cable and from where one can connect several USB-A, at last on Ethernet and one HDMI, etc. cables. These hubs are fairly small, unobtrusive, not expensive and can be bought online from Amazon, etc. There are several brands with different designs and among these one should be able to find one that fits one’s needs.

I use one of those to connect things to a Mac on loan from NASA I use to work remotely with an approved computer; this particular Mac is a recent model, so it only has a few of those tiny USB connectors. My own Mac, another laptop, is the mid-2015 model with all the useful sockets for the things on would need a hub these days. I bought it, rather than a newer model precisely because of this.

That would take care of one big iMac limitation. The other one, having everything glued to the motherboard, is not something one can do anything and must trust that at Apple they had not lost their touch for designing and making hardware that works without problems that require major surgery to correct.

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Thanks for your suggestions. I will keep them under consideration.

The other one, having everything glued to the motherboard, is not something one can do anything and must trust that at Apple they had not lost their touch for designing and making hardware that works without problems that require major surgery to correct.

But on this, all I can say is Yikes!!!  The iMAC is a big investment.  I want it to last for a long time.

Donna

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If it helps, I’m still using using 3 Ivy Bridge i7 macs of the 2011-12 error, they are still getting security updates, they are still fast with beautiful screens. You will not regret an investment in a Mac.
I understand the hesitance to change from something you have known for a long time.

Several years ago I did some Topics on MacOS. Read through them. It might take some of the mystery out of a change. Things have changed some since then, but not drastically.
Walled Garden?
Comparing Mac Finder to Windows File Explorer: here, here, and here.
And about using Virtual Machines here, here, here, and here.

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PK, There have been comments to the effect that at least some VMs now running on Intel Macs might or might not not be modified to run on the new M1 (Silicon) Macs. Do you now what is now the story about that?

Also about the “Walled Garden”: I have downloaded my browsers (Waterfox, FireFox and Chrome) as well as several applications directly from the Web sites of the developers, not from Apple’s “Apps Store.” Is that going to be blocked in the new versions of macOS, maybe starting with “Monterey”?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Parallels VMs run Windows on ARM on the M1 Macs, as I understand it. I believe it is available as an Insider version only at this point. But Win on ARM is not what the common User will be running anyway, so won’t be of much help here.
They don’t have anything on Intel Win and M1 Mac at the moment – only “we’ll try.”

Will answer other questions in a week or so. My M1 is due to be delivered sometime in that time frame.

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If you can’t run the VM’s, OK, but MS has rescinded twice their so called requirements.  You know Win 11 is just Win 10 with a gigantic start menu (thanks, Linux.)  There are no requirements; if it runs, that’s the requirement.  I have Win 10 running acceptably on a 10 year old middling laptop.

I’ll bet Win 11 eventually appears as 21H2 with some nonsensical marketing gibberish explanation.  This was the limpest, most non-committal introduction I’ve ever witnessed.

I don’t run VM’s but I do know how to turn off or remove or block everything in Windows I don’t use, which seems to be most of it, and end up with a fast, no interrupton OS.  Problem is, it takes half a day with a new install tearing out chunks of junk.  My desktop, start menu, most everything looks great, not even recognizable as Windows.  No blue anything anywhere!

Used almost every Linux distro available.  Yes, most work.  No, none of them are as ready for prime time as Windows, some highly touted distros are a complete joke.  Thin mint anyone?  No recent experience with Mac’s but I’d never use another iPhone; far too limited in what they can do and apparently carved from a lead billet, crazy heavy!

I set up my kids’ machines same as mine and they absolutely love them.  Great endorsement coming from teens who suffered through 3 years of school distributed chromebooks, then one happy year with their own Win laptops.

Yeah, MS is adrift with phone culture fools attempting to steer a giant ship they can’t.  Won’t stop until they’re broken into little pieces; two worse monopolies are ahead in line.

Hang around, you contribute a lot of good stuff here.  Me, I don’t seem to be able to sign up!

Captcha time…..argh!

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PKCano you and Woody were/are the main reasons I’m here. Woody has moved on and that only leaves you to provide me with the where-with-all I need to keep my 75 year old brain up with all MS and Windows 10 nonsense. The infamous catch cry of the banks some years ago was “Too big to fail.”  Well so much for that.  Now it would appear the MS catch phrase is, “Too big to care.”  I too am from the days of DOS and really enjoyed Microsoft – not so today. As far as I’m concerned MS can put Windows “whatever” where Paddy put his shilling. At my age and in this uncertain world we are in how dare MS dump this detritus on the masses. The answer is greed, big salaries, bonuses and powerful shareholders. Screw the minions. Here endeth the rant.

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I’m not giving up on helping here. Just unloading some of the MS burden. MacOS is a piece of cake compared to Windows.

And I have you beat on the age thing, LOL 🙂

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PK– I always read your posts and have found them uniformly relevant and helpful. Thanks for what you’ve accomplished for Ask Woody.
…..
After that day in April IIRC when my Win10 Pro V1909 went out of support, I went ahead the next day and upgraded it to H121 or whatever it was, just to still have a working Win machine.
…..
Then, I dual-booted into my Linux Mint 20.1, stayed in it all day; and the next; and so on. I have been back into Win10 once in the 2 months since then. Otherwise, LinuxMint is my daily bread, and driver, which I use for everything. Truly, I don’t miss Win10. Nor do I miss failed upgrades, spending hours researching AW and the Net to see if this mohnth’s upgrades will trash my machine; and at the same time, I felt my info and computing were well-protected against snoopers on the Net. Linux does it all for my personal and SOHO computing. Best to you, ma’am !!

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I spent a little time with a VM of Win11 last night and came away very disappointed and pretty much throwing my hands up in the air as well. The Start Menu is worse than 10’s, which is funny because 10’s isn’t that great to begin with. They’re still not going to revert much control over updating; most of the GPO’s for updates that have come with 10 are still there, but going back to where we pick and choose updates – those days are long gone, my friends.

I’ve built 3 Ryzen systems in 2020, an R9 3900x which is my primary workstation, and 2 R5 3600 desktops for my daughters to game and work on. (These replaced aging i7 and i5 systems that were for all intents and purposes 6+ years old but otherwise worked fine.) All 3 systems are 11 capable, including the Ryzen CPU fTPM capability. That being said, I don’t want 11, not in its current state.

Starting with 1703, Win10 by and large got to a point of acceptability for me. It’s still there, with what I’m running currently, 20H2. It has its quirks, but for the most part, I accept them and move on about my business. It’s new enough to not be a re-tread of Windows past, but it’s not so far fetched either that it’s a completely new OS and I might as well throw my expertise and learning time into something else.

IMHO, that changes with 11, for me at least – again, based on my time with it in a VM so far. They have A LOT to change with 11 before I run it on bare metal. At this point I’m just as likely to dump 10 on all my boxes and completely switch over to Ubuntu.

I have no clue why people are ranting and raving about how great 11 is. I think it’s atrocious. Again, it has a long way to go before I run it on anything I do work on. IMHO they’ve further mucked up Settings, added a worse Start menu, removed a lot of customization (Start menu has to go at bottom now, no more top or sides?), all in an effort to Apple-fy the UI.

It looks great, but as far as I’m concerned, the beauty is only skin deep. As a SysAdmin by trade, it’s friggin’ ugly.

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Thank you all. This is all so recognisable, including the eternal racing; the rat race for what and to what extent?
It’s time for the fine arts to have some fun.

* _ ... _ *

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PKCano

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PKCano wrote:

(Or Linux will probably do just as well)

It also has the advantage of working on the hardware you already have, which will be particularly helpful to the people who have newish PCs (basically anything whose performance is still adequate for the person’s needs) and who do not want to buy a new computer because of Microsoft’s antics, as moving to MacOS would require.

This latest slap in the face of Windows users is just the latest of a long series since Nadella took over the reins. MS may be kindler and gentler to its competitors, but it sure isn’t to its own Windows customers, and users of consumer editions of Windows in particular. At what point will they decide that enough is enough and get out?

 

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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@PKCano, bon voyage!

Personally I used Windows 2000 from 1998 thru 2015, 5 years beyond its EOL without any problems. I replaced those two hand-built dual processor systems with 5 year old used 64-bit HP business systems from eBay to run Windows 7 briefly before switching to Windows 10. They all have TPM 1.2 but no UEFI to support Secure Boot. I very much doubt HP will release updated system firmware to provide UEFI nor am I interested in writing my own. I also doubt I could upgrade to TPM 2.0 somehow. Then there is the age of the processor which also doesn’t make the cut.

I have looked at Linux and apparently it can run it on top of the NTFS filesystem but I’m just not motivated. I certainly would not feel comfortable having all my files stored on Ext4 or ZFS when the power goes out while I’m accessing them. So I plan to to just ride it out and enjoy no longer getting useless feature updates.

If Microsoft really stops supporting Windows 10 without providing a software upgrade to something they do support, then so be it. I’ll just have a few of the billion devices still running an unsupported Windows 10 system at that point. No big deal–I already have 5 years experience with doing something like that. I am most certainly not now nor in the next 10 years about to buy new hardware just to be able to run whatever Microsoft dreams up. Most of the rest of the world will end up in that the same boat. Many will probably be oblivious until Microsoft starts warning them that Windows 10 is about to become obsolete 4 years from now. Considering how hard it was to get so many people to do a free upgrade, it be a whole lot harder to get them to spend real money to do so!

HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 22H2
Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 8.00 GB
HP ProDesk 400 G5 SFF PC / Windows 11 Pro / 23H2
Intel®Core™ “Coffee Lake” i3-8100 3.6 GHz / 16.00 GB

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EyesOnWindows wrote:

I have looked at Linux and apparently it can run it on top of the NTFS filesystem but I’m just not motivated. I certainly would not feel comfortable having all my files stored on Ext4 or ZFS when the power goes out while I’m accessing them.

Ext4 is a journaling file system like NTFS is, and ZFS in particular is designed to protect against just that kind of data loss. I don’t think NTFS is any better in this way than Ext4.

I would not run Linux on NTFS. It’s a foreign file system, and it won’t perform as well as native ones, just as Ext4 on Windows would be inferior to NTFS (though it has required a third party driver to accomplish). If you want to have one file system that both OSes can read out of the box, NTFS will do, but it’s not optimal in Linux.

And then there’s Btrfs… now the default in Fedora. No experience with it, but it is a snapshotting file system that obviates much of backup software.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Wondered how long it would take PK 🙂 Painting over the cracks don’t fool me either.
I’m actually more excited about Debian ‘Bullseye’ scheduled for FINAL released 31st July, than Windows 11 Bull5h1t. Nice move to ARM with your MacMini M1: E N J O Y!!

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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PKCano

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Thank you for all the help you’ve given the community, and to me personally. Thanks to you I have a firm grasp on Windows 10’s updating behaviour, and how to effectively control it.

All of your efforts are greatly appreciated; the amount of your free time you’ve given up to help others is nothing short of amazing.

Thank you, take care and I wish you the very best for the future.

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jburk07, PKCano

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I’m still helping out here.
Just relieving  some of the MS burden on my time.

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CAS, Cee Arr, jburk07, wavy, jkwatson, Mele20, CADesertRat, Slowpoke47, Sky, SueW, Coldheart9020, LHiggins

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When I saw the topic title I too was worried that you were leaving the forum!

Like Coldheart9020 said, your contributions to this forum are great, and I’ve personally found your KB articles the most helpful thing on the internet for controlling Windows. Glad to hear that you’ll be sticking around.

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Cee Arr, jburk07, PKCano

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I can understand how it must be tiring riding herd over a bunch of VMs, all the while ducking and dodging and trying to hide from Microsoft. I’ve tried VMs on a few occasions over the years, and never found them satisfying. Nor IMHO is evaluation of an OS on a VM a realistic evaluation of the OS. I much prefer hardware.

I personally have not encountered anyone IRL who has experienced a blue screen from Windows 10. A couple of months ago I was visiting my oldest son, and he wanted to show me some photos he had on his hp laptop. I asked him what OS he was running, and he said Windows. I asked him what version, and he had no idea. I took a quick look, and he was running Windows 10. He has had no problems, doesn’t even know his OS is being updated automatically. It just works.

I have always been a strong proponent and advocate for drive imaging, and I have always used a drive imaging regimen. I have always been a strong proponent of partitioning, primarily because it makes for a more efficient OS, and makes drive imaging/restoring quick and easy. I am an inveterate tinkerer of Windows innards and registry, and naturally from time to time pooch the OS. I can restore it to pristine working order in 3 minutes, plus the reboot into my Windows Recovery Environment, which is less than a minute.

Other than hardware drivers, I don’t duck, dodge or try to hide from Microsoft. All my systems are fully updated with whatever Microsoft throws my way, and I have yet to hit a blue screen or be interrupted by an update. I am not a practitioner of, nor a believer in, MS-DEFCON for home users. It makes sense for business machines/networks, but drive imaging is a much less intensive effort (and easily automated) to avoid any and all troubles. When an update/upgrade gives me a problem (none have, so far), I will be able to solve that problem in a little less than 4 minutes.

For all the problems/troubles/gnashing-of-teeth being discussed here on AskWoody, what is the overall effect in the wide, wide world of Windows? I dare say that if a Windows Update suddenly turned tens of millions of Windows 10 PCs into big bricks, it would make the news. I’m not talking about the techy news; the sky is always falling (or is rainbows and sunbeams) in the techy news world. What if the New York Times ran a headline “Millions of Windows 10 computers suddenly useless!”??? That might get my attention, but I haven’t seen such a headline.

I’m not saying that these folks don’t have problems, but at the same time, I can’t help thinking that some of it is self-inflicted by not having a fully updated OS. An up-to-date drive image can overcome even catastrophic hardware failure.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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WStoyclyde, DriftyDonN, joep517

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You keep repeating the same thing.
Obviously you are one of the ones living in a world of “rainbows and sunbeams.”
But very few in the real world come any where close to your altered configuration, or your knowledge to fix things if they break.
Your situation, although perfect for you, is not comparable to the common consumer.

Other than fooling around with the removal of built-in Apps lately, my installations (although in VMs) are basically standard and similar to what is installed by the common User.
Full disk backup/restore of a VM, religiously done on all of mine as well, is minutes (as well). Simply copy/paste the VM file, no other software required.

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Cee Arr

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PKCano wrote:

You keep repeating the same thing.

As do you.  And you’ve got lots of fans.  But I’m just living in reality, not “rainbows and sunbeams”, and the sky is not falling.

PKCano wrote:

But very few in the real world come any where close to altered your configuration, or your knowledge to fix things if they break. Your situation, although perfect for you, is not comparable to the common consumer.

My NAS OS is a Microsoft Kosher installation of Windows 10 Pro, every update/upgrade gets pushed to it by Microsoft, and I don’t do anything to intervene other than use Group Policy to block driver updates, and import a registry file to eliminate “Special Folders” and “Quick Access”.

It has had every update/upgrade pushed, and I have had absolutely no problems with any of them.

PKCano wrote:

Other than fooling around with the removal of built-in Apps lately, my installations (although in VMs) are basically standard and similar to what is found by the common User.

Pretty much like my NAS, which, again, has had zero problems with pushed updates/upgrades from Microsoft.  So the argument that it is my altered configurations doesn’t really hold water.

IMHO, being fully updated while having regular up-to-date drive images to fall back on in case of trouble is the way to go.  Windows 11 is not yet RTM, and I will patiently wait for it.  When it gets here, I’ll deal with it.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Your NAS is your daily driver, Right?

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PKCano wrote:

Your NAS is your daily driver, Right?

It is my Network Attached Storage.  It’s a DIY box with Windows 10 Pro as the OS, an Intel Motherboard controlled RAID 10 Array using 4 NAS-rated 4TB HDD’s totaling 7.27TB storage.

I can connect to it using RDP or change input signal on my monitor and plug in the wireless dongle for my mouse and keyboard.  I also use it occasionally for audio and video rendering when I want to use my dual boot daily driver desktop at the same time for something else.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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That’s what I thought. Not your daily driver.

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PKCano wrote:

That’s what I thought. Not your daily driver.

My daily driver is dual boot, Windows 10 Pro on both sides.  The A side (which is the “daily driver” of my daily driver) is partitioned out using Microsoft Supported relocation of the individual folders in the User Profile.  Every folder in the User Profile that has a Properties > Location tab can be moved to another partition on another drive by a Windows process.

The only Windows folder in “C:\Users\bbearren” is AppData.  All the rest are on “V:\Users\bbearren”, and it was all done by Windows 10, a right-click and a couple more mouse clicks.

As for Program Files, any program installation that offers a “Custom” install will usually allow for installation on a different drive\folder other than C:\Program Files.  Again, this is totally Microsoft Supported behavior.

Yes, it’s divided up into discreet portions on partitions I created.  No, it is not my method but Microsoft Supported Windows Processes that perform the locating.

And Windows Updates/Upgrades do not cause any problems.  They just work.

The B side is quite different, and is indeed of my own technique.  For example, there is no C:\Users folder.  There’s a T:\Users folder.  This side is the one where I see how far I can go and still have Windows Updates/Upgrades work without issue, and so far, so good.  I’m still tinkerin’ with the B side.

And yet even with an unsupported configuration, it stays fully updated/upgraded without issue.  A and B have driver updates blocked in Group Policy, but that’s it.  The rest are unfettered by delays of any sort.

In summary, my daily driver has a fully Microsoft Supported configuration, and a totally unsupported configuration, both fully updated (other than drivers) both without update/upgrade issues, and both fully covered by regular drive images.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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🙂 Yes, we all know that.

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PKCano wrote:

Yes, we all know that.

joep517 wrote:

I generally check for updates several times a week and let it update whatever is there.

That’s pretty much what I do, too (as we all know).  My NAS gets the push, always.  Joe and I stay fully updated.

What few issues we get are for the most part self-inflicted, and easily corrected.

For Joe and me (as well as a couple more folks here at AskWoody), staying fully updated, with drive images for protection causes little to no problems.

Certainly a small sample size, but I still believe something can be deduced from it.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

Certainly a small sample size, but I still believe something can be deduced from it.

Most certainly!

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I support friends/family/relatives/office/home pcs and I think some of it is gaming related (there are overclocking hacks and software that cause issues), third party a/v related (IMHO with Windows 10 use defender – malware bytes as a standalone), the use of registry editing software, installing old software/old drivers.  You have to keep the kids on the playground the same age.

I honestly don’t see this as any different than 98 to XP, XP to Vista, Vista to 7, etc.  I’ve had to buy my way into most of these transitions and not have all of the computers on the same version.

The BIG problem IMHO is the expectation that “this is the last version ever”.  With any company and a marketing department that has a goal to sell stuff I think we fell for that one – granted Microsoft didn’t step in and clarify.

I’m a realist. My key applications are still windows.  That doesn’t mean I didn’t get really p-off with Microsoft one time and bought a Chromebook and a Linux based laptop, (and use ipads, iphones, Mac laptop, etc) but there’s still some key applications that – for now – are Windows.  Windows 11 installed just fine on my newest Surface.

If I really hated change, I shouldn’t have got into tech in the first place.  I used to code Cobol and Basic.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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bbearren, cyberSAR

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I’m not thrilled or impressed by what I’ve seen so far with my limited testing. 11 really doesn’t seem too much different to me other than eye candy. I could get used to it or customize it to suit my needs I think.

Just hate the thought that some very nice 4 year-old systems may not make the cut. I get it… planned obsolescence masquerading as security.

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I generally agree with Bruce. Going back to Windows 3.11, I can count on one hand the number of BSODs I’ve encountered. And a couple of those I know I caused when I was messing around with graphics drivers. I’ve installed every version of Windows since 3.11 on my personal PC. For a number of years, I was running every preview build of Windows 10 as my production OS. I switched to a VM last February with a new PC. When I find the time, I’m going to switch back to running whatever the preview build is at the time as my production OS. I do regular backup images of my machines so that I can recover easily should a disaster strike. I’ve gotten less and less concerned with tweaking WIndows and generally messing around with Windows. I just use it to do what I want pretty much out-of-the-box. I generally check for updates several times a week and let it update whatever is there. I’ve had one BSOD or GSOD since I started running preview builds and once again it was me injecting a video driver that was unstable.

 

--Joe

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bbearren, DriftyDonN

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So all of your current machines meet all of MS’s new specs.
Great!

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My less-than-three-years-old Surface doesn’t. 😭

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SO glad to see I’m not the only one abandoning MS (about 2 1/2 years ago at our house).  I’m a mere babe vis-a-vis computers, as my introduction was Vista.  With substantial help here, I learned enough to do what I needed, and went to W7 when it came out.  When MS threw W7 under the bus, we went to Linux Mint rather than participate in the rolling train wreck of W10, documented weekly right here.

What a revelation! Mint just plain works, no excuses needed.  Updates are a non-event.  It’s just a better all-around OS and I can’t recommend it highly enough.  If I, as a semi-clueless user can succeed with Mint, anyone can!

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jburk07, SueW, Cybertooth, Bill C., Ascaris, OscarCP, Charlie

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I feel your pain.  Perhaps I just don’t know how to do it but…  I have never run a VM on linux to run windows – don’t know how, don’t know where I would get support. Last time I tried to install wine (on Mint) it simply wouldn’t install – got no support. I need to be able to run Schwab’s Smartstreet Edge. Apparently one person did it and left a bit of info on how to, but no one else has. Google only shows that one, so I don’t think it would be a useful expenditure of my time to be a trailblazer, and fail.

I could camp onto being an insider because apparently they have 11, but, if, at the end, MS decides that my late model Kabylake won’t be allowed, I would have to back everything off to 10. Also not useful or fun.

I think I heard that 10 would have support for 5 years (don’t quote me), and if so, I will sit there. I just bought this laptop(used). Maybe in 5 years I will have seen fit to get a newer one, and thence one that will accommodate MS. A lot can happen in 5 years. It runs today.

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a wrote:

I think I heard that 10 would have support for 5 years

Windows 10 EOL on October 2025.
Windows 10 will probably get 3-4 years of extended support. By that time Windows 11 will be Windows 16 running like ChromeOS on the cloud.

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a

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yes, agreed.

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For VMware: How to install Vmware on Linux Mint

https://www.sysnettechsolutions.com/en/install-vmware-workstation-linux-mint/

How to create a new Virtual Machine in VMware

https://www.sysnettechsolutions.com/en/create-virtual-machine-vmware/

If you prefer using Oracle’s VirtualBox (which is in the Mint repository):

How to install VirtualBox in Linux Mint

https://linuxhint.com/install-virtualbox-linux-mint/

How to create a new VM in VirtualBox

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E26217_01/E26796/html/qs-create-vm.html

As far as support goes, Linux Mint has an active support form that is very helpful (leagues ahead of what you get from MS). Just search for either VMware or Virtualbox, and see if your question has been answered, or join the forum and ask:

https://forums.linuxmint.com/

 

 

 

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jburk07, a

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Many thanks for that. I am under the delusion that I need to waste some time at the moment so I will go install Mint dual boot and try those and see! Besides, there’s 124GB going unused on my little 250GB M.2 .

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe that I need a license it I’m going to install 21H2 in a VM, but realizing I think I can probably use the one that was used by my now retired T530. (?) I’ll have to dig through my stuff to see what pro license keys I have…

Thanks again!

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Started. Turned VM on in BIOS, installed Mint 20.1 Cinnamon, D/L and install VMware Workstation 16 and installed win 10 Pro 20H1. I installed Schwab Smartstreet Edge and ran it and logged in to it. seems fine as far as I went.

I have 3 questions which I posted in the virtual section of Mint forum:

I am using VMware Workstation 16 Player because I believe that is the free one for personal use. Is that correct?

Will win eventually ask me for a key? I told it digital so it would install.

How do I transfer files in to the win in the VM?

Best, if you can, to answer me on Mint forum. THANKS!

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Several of us here have done the VM thing, so we can certainly render what assistance we can. I remember some of the difficulties you were having. Sorry it didn’t work out then, but if you want to give it another shot, I will try to help all I can.

I use Virtualbox for my Windows-ing. It works really nicely for those times when I need Windows for something hardware-specific. WINE works for most everything else (or you can use Steam to run the Windows stuff and run them on Proton. Steam is game oriented, but it can run anything you want. For WINE and VirtualBox both, I use the repos from the developers of each.

You should not need a key to install Windows into a VM. You should be able to install it without a key, and activate it later.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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I have used several different mainframe OS before PCs became powerful enough to be used as workstations for serious number-crunching and not just good enough to be used as dumb remote terminals to mainframes.  And then I used Linux PCs and Macs for a while after that.

Finally, in 1998, I bought my first Windows PC, a laptop (all the computers I have bought ever since have been laptops). It was running Windows 98. I kept it for some six years, skipping new versions until Windows XP came up, and then I bought a new machine, with Windows XP instead o upgrading the old one, because the 6GB HD of the first one was nearly full, in spite of my repeated efforts to only keep on it the things I absolutely needed to have there.  Then I stayed on XP until Windows 7 came up. By then, the situation had become again one of its 32 GB disk too full for the PC to work properly, so I bought a new PC running Windows 7. That was back in 2011 and I kept using it until January 2020, when Win 7 reached end of life. By then I had been using also a Mac laptop I got back in mid-2017. Since then I have used only this Mac and mothballed the Windows 7 PC.

I have had very few problems with this Mac, except for one occasion when I had to ask for advice from the Support people at Apple, and that was only a small issue, early on.

As to my Windows experience over the years: it has been a bit rough, mostly because of some quirkiness of the OS that was to be expected, but some took a long time to figure out. For quite a while, for example, I could not watch videos because of screen tearing. After much searching for some clue as to why was that, I found the answer at a Web forum: the culprit was the “Classic” GUI, I needed to move on to the “Aero” one. That took care of it, although I never liked Aero very much. Other problems, from time to time, included the sudden memory loss of the system that forgot that I was the only user and master of the computer: my profile would get  lost. I finally got the answer from someone here at AskWoody:  possible conflict with things that launched at startup. So I disabled all those launch Demons of things that did not seem necessary, and the problem went way. Also some problems with patches that would not load properly. Maybe two or three BSODs without consequence and also several times the system freezing and requiring turning off the computer, then making a secure boot.

So mine is not exactly a tale of woe. I have always been careful to install patches by hand, as there was never a problem doing that through Windows 7. Every time I did that I would also create a restore point. And, even before I joined the crowd here, I was and have been very slow to install patches, waiting to see and hear what awful things I was sparing myself by not installing anything right away. I followed Susan’s Master patch list more than the DEFCON, to be frank, once she starting doing that.

Now about the controversy about the trouble-free use of windows 10, or not, and how people are exaggerating, or not, the bad patches and other outrages attributed to MS repeatedly over time here.

Maybe I live a charmed life, but I doubt that, given all the hard encounters with reality I have had in the course of a rather long life and still have. Alternatively, as explained briefly above, I have been always cagey about updates and patches and making any changes to the OS with the greatest reluctance. So maybe “careful” is a better word than “lucky” to define the why of my overall good Windows experience.

Now to Windows 10: I begun to have serious doubts about the wisdom of moving over to it when I learned of the dirty trick that made clicking off a box offering to install Win 10 for free, back when it was first released, to automatically give MS the go ahead to install it anyway without the user’s permission, followed by a deluge of patches every few weeks and the fact that the system was supposed to be getting three mid-to-major upgrades every few months (in the event, several seem to have been “mid” and just minor ones, some offering no more than a few new minor features — and several new bugs, as it is invariably the case with actual OS modifications).

And all the complaints that had always been made about Windows were still coming, but those about Windows 10, both in numbers and in seriousness, made the use of previous versions seem to belong in a golden age of trouble-free computing.

Were and are all those people complaining really exaggerating, or more to the point, lying? High on something? Victims of some collective mass delusion? Some were and are, perhaps, but most of them? I find that very hard to believe.

Or is, perhaps, this site under the control of a wicked cabal of MS bashers?

Or to put this a bit differently: How many unicorns are needed to change a light bulb?

(Whaaaat!!???? is the correct answer to both, I think.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Cybertooth, Charlie

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OscarCP wrote:

Were and are all those people complaining really exaggerating, or more to the point, lying? High on something? Victims of some collective mass delusion? Some were and are, perhaps, but most of them? I find that very hard to believe.

In my case, the dislike for Windows 10 that drove me away from the computing platform I had used exclusively for 25 years (and I am not one who likes change very much) wasn’t based at all on the supposed crashes, malfunctions, failed updates, PCs rendered unbootable, or other manifestations of bugs in the updates or the update process. I never saw any of that… in the (relatively brief) time I have run Windows 10, it has done what it was meant to do, running smoothly and quickly with no drama (with one particular “won’t update” problem in a VM excepted, since I have no way of knowing whether that was the fault of Windows or of VirtualBox). I can’t remember ever seeing Win 10 bluescreen.

My objections come from elsewhere, and they all center on Microsoft’s lack of respect for Windows users like I used to be (consumer level). All of the other things spring from that philosophically, and from WaaS operationally. Windows 11 is not, thus far, shaping up to be any different. I much prefer the time before we had this “kinder, gentler” Microsoft that everyone thinks isn’t the bad guy anymore. Windows was far better and more respectful of its users when Windows was unkind and rough. I’m not talking about the underhood stuff; in that way, Windows 10 is clearly quite decent. But with all of that low level goodness buried under layers of WaaS and disregard for the needs of their users (as defined by themselves), the end result is me making the decision to switch to Linux, and I haven’t regretted it.

For the benefit of my Windows-using compatriots, I had hoped that Windows 11, when it was announced, would be the Windows that fixes all of the Win 10 stuff, but I knew better than to actually expect it. So far it looks like it is more of the same Windows 10 nonsense, with a slightly different wrapper.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Kranium, Charlie, Cybertooth, Fred

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Ascaris:  You have complained, repeatedly, if not about the OS itself, about MS’ attitude. This is not an expression of disagreement with you, but a clarification of what I meant in my previous comment that might be necessary. My statement included your kind of complaints, that were not exclusively yours either, along with the rest of the lamentations about the OS itself and the poor job of fixing it by its makers, one of whose early achievements was to fire the quality control people and make the users into unpaid beta testers.

I gave up on Windows 10 and ended my almost quarter century of being a Windows user when the next thing for me was either  to move on to Windows 10 or go away. So I went away. For the same reasons you and quite a few others have been complaining about and can be summarized with the word “disrespect”: more precisely, a lack of respect for the users. It was clear to me, ever since Windows 8 came out, with its genius creators trying to make one’s PC look and feel like a sort of weird cell phone, that there was something deeply wrong with the way MS was being managed, at least as far as its then still ostensibly main product and business was concerned. The more I have seen of the trajectory of this company over the next several years through the present day, and not just about its treatment of Windows, the more convinced I have become of that.

So now it is Apple and, or Linux for me. Apple is not run by angels with harps and halos eternally singing with divine voices to the glory of Creation, but it is definitely not in the some league as MS in how bad it is at treating individual customers, such as YT. Either of the two systems would be quite sufficient for what I need, and I intend to bring Linux to my Mac, one way or another, as an experiment, when I am not running around putting out fires and have a quiet moment to do something more interesting for myself.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Charlie, Ascaris, Cybertooth, Fred

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don’t squabble. it is what it is.

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That is a very sententious comment.

It would be nice if people pointed out to the comments they are referring to when passing judgment on them and also quoted from them to be clear about it. So far, I have read all comments up to this point  and written some myself, and seen no evidence of squabbling. In fact, except for two dissenting voices, who have made their point in a very correct manner, everyone else, YT included, is pretty much in solid agreement with KP on the issue at hand to an extent that I have not often seen in AskWoody. Some have emphasized some aspects of this issue, some have others, but that is not squabbling, merely the stating of congruent personal perspectives.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Mele20

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I got an early start on being turned off by Microsoft when they came out with Windows 8.  I was building a new computer and Win 8 was out already but I went with Win 7 because it was more like the previous Windows versions I was used to.  Even then, it took me a few months to get familiar with Win 7 since I jumped from Win XP.

Thanks to Woody’s advice I was able to avoid getting Win 10 pushed into my computer and I have not had any desire whatsoever to have it. I don’t complain about it because I don’t have it, but I do place thanks and an occasional comment on posts by those who do.

I still have and use Win 7, and use Linux Mint Cinnamon for going online, etc. Unless MS gets their act together (unlikely) they’ve lost me for good.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Kranium

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PKCano wrote:

IMHO They’ve just put more lipstick on the pig.

Beating the dead horse once again, the EULA plainly states that it is Microsoft’s pig.  We only have a license to use it, and we (by the act of using it) have agreed to the specifics of the EULA.

PKCano wrote:

On the whole though, Windows 11 is rolling in – and I’m rolling out.

You are exercising your rights under the EULA:

“By accepting this agreement or using the software, you agree to all of these terms, and consent to the transmission of certain information during activation and during your use of the software as per the privacy statement described in Section 3. If you do not accept and comply with these terms, you may not use the software or its features.”

PKCano wrote:

Get a Mac. You’ll never go back.

I have used Macs, and decided that Apple’s gilded cage and the Apple Tax were a sufficient deterrent to ever buying one.

PKCano wrote:

(Or Linux will probably do just as well)

I’ve tried various distros of Linux and found all wanting.  Windows allows me to do what I want to do easily and efficiently.  I don’t use any registry cleaners, no Windows Tweaker apps or magic-one-click-fixes-everything apps, no Norton or other such bloated security suite, or other “must-have” tools.

I do use a couple of very specific utilities that speed up some of the things I could do by hand, but those utilities show me what they have queued up to do, and allow me to check it out before I commit to it.  I’ve used them for years (when a new version of Windows is RTM), and they have never let me down.

It is certainly reasonable for a business to check out updates/upgrades on a test machine before rolling them out to their network of machines.  For a home user with up-to-date drive images, there is nothing to fear in allowing updates to run freely.  A current drive image can roll you back quickly and thoroughly with nothing lost or corrupted, if an update/upgrade should fail.

Installing and using drive imaging software is simpler and easier than trying to jump through all the hoops to hide/show/postpone/release updates.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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? says:

thank you PK for your heartfelt article. i miraculously clawed\crawled out from under my decades long addiction to windows (trying to get it to do what i needed it to do sans the rabbit holes.) so much wasted time even considering the joy that accompanied the rare sucesses. so, i have moved on and the sunshine has returned my life. i still love coming to Woody’s though i do so miss his daily oversight and wisdom, yet i always look for the blue jellyfish-mushrooms…

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wavy, OscarCP, Microfix, PKCano

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i miraculously clawed\crawled out from under my decades long addiction to windows (trying to get it to do what i needed it to do sans the rabbit holes.) so much wasted time even considering the joy that accompanied the rare sucesses. so, i have moved on and the sunshine has returned my life.

Are you using an Apple device? If not, what was your replacement for Windows?

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? says:

thanks for your question dmt, no apples in my orchard (daughter is iphone and apple lap after win 7 tried to morph into winx all by it’s lonesome.) Thankfully, i was saved from windows ever expanding vortex by Mr. L. Torvalds.

currently have Ubuntu 18.04 lts, 20.04 lts x2 Unity and 20.04 lts gnome x2 plus slax 9.11.0 running.

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wavy

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Oh thanks! I was just wondering. Donna

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For most of my life if I have worked on a computer just to do my work and get paid for it, as well as for more highminded professional reasons and corresponding satisfactions. I have used for work, first mainframes, then UNIX workstations, then Personal Computers, a term I use to include Macs.

To learn about the news, I used to read newspapers and magazines printed on paper and listened to Public radio (I’ve never had much time for the TV News Channels.) For entertainment, I went to the movies, or bought DVD’s of movies, or later on, got the DVD’s also from Netflix.

Until the Web, as well as personal computing devices and software, developed to the point that news, entertainment and work could all be had and be done using the one device, and there is where things have stood for several years and stand for me now.

The work I do requires being able to do heavy number crunching now and then, and also to get things done quickly, so doing my work is, not the only reason anymore, but still the main reason why I have a computer. And for this reason, a change to the operating system can be, and most like is, a fountain of totally time-wasting problems I can hardly afford to have, even if all the patches were 100% excellent.

So: to each according to their needs. I don’t know, because this has not come up, what others here mostly do with their computers, besides some who have mentioned gaming, or building their own machines, and others, tinkering with the hardware and, or with the OS, things all foreign to me. But I am sure that, whatever that is, it shapes their needs and determines how actually trouble-free is their computing with Windows 10, or whatever OS they are using. So one should not assume that one’s own experience and one’s own views have to be those of nearly everyone else. Except when, in very substantial numbers, others say that, in effect, they are theirs as well. Case in point, here.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Cee Arr

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Sooooo can I get a Mac Mini, a monitor and a keyboard?  Will that replace a Dell laptop for me? I am a basic user – no gaming, graphics, no video or photo editing.  I use email (Outlook), view, create and edit documents (O365), use the internet (FF).  I backup my machine using Macrium to a drive.  I also have Carbonite.  I use an Epson printer – right now it’s running with USB, I had trouble with WIFI setup after getting a new router. I’d like to keep the usb.  I’m sure I’m forgetting something….but I was thinking I may not need an iMAC or Macbook – I could get better value out of a Mini.

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dmt_3904 wrote:

I use email (Outlook), view, create and edit documents (O365), use the internet (FF).  I backup my machine using Macrium to a drive.  I also have Carbonite.  I use an Epson printer –

You can do all this even with a Chromebook.

A mini is a great machine which comes with a great OS.

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Yes that is true. Or an iPad!  And I would like to just do that.  However I have found that certain functions are uncomfortable when using a tablet – e.g. editing & updating a document. And there are some O365 functions that just don’t work on O365 IOS.   I think it would be great to dump my laptop for a tablet, but like I said there’s some things that just don’t seem to work for me. Maybe I’m just too used to having a computer.

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You know Alex you got me thinking!  I had tried to use the iPad to replace my computer a little while ago and decided it wasn’t going to work.  But then I was thinking after I read your comment and replied that I hadn’t really given it a good try.  I am doing an ‘experiment’ – use the iPad exclusively for the next few weeks, dcument what I find to be an issue, problems that occur, things I think I need the computer to do.   Research to see if it’s a deal-breaker or there is a solution.  And then decide if I really need a new device to replace my Dell.  Thanks! Donna

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I use FF as my main browser, Waterfox as backup. I have Office 2016 for Mac (perpetual version, not C2R) installed on the Intel MacMini. Have not looked into Mac capable O365, check MS365 website. Also have Libre Office and Thunderbird (Office substitutes) installed as well as the Mac suite of office-like products. My printers are Brother and HP – have had no problems with them running on Intel Macs. You will need Mac based backup software for image backup or use the built-in Time Machine s/w (can be used on an external HDD as well as an Apple Time Machine). I use SugarSync (runs on Intel, M1 and Win) for syncing all 5 of my Macs and two of the Windows VM (Win7 and Win8.1). Don’t know if Carbonite has a Mac version – you might check their website. Most of my daily use software comes from the vendors, not the Apple Store, although there some s/w you can get either place (for example VLC Player, Kindle Reader).

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/ongoing-list-of-mac-apps-updated-for-universal-apple-silicon-support/#post-2375082

I will have more information on M1 available software in the next week or so after I get my hands on the M1 Mac.

I use my 2012 Intel MacMini as my main Mac. I have a Thunderbolt Display of the same vintage, and will continue to use it on the new one. I love the small form-factor (sits on my desk, not on the floor!).

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OscarCP, dmt_3904

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I got fed up of pro 2 years ago and switched to Enterprise then made the switch to LTSC last year. To be honest I haven’t looked back windows 10 without the crap works a treat…

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LTSC?  Without what crap?  Could you please elaborate some more on this?  Thanks.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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Microfix

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Charlie wrote:

LTSC?  Without what crap?

http://woshub.com/faq-windows-10-ltsc-explained/#h2_3

…there are no these features in the operation system:

Telemetry
Edge browser;
Microsoft Store;
Preinstalled UWP apps (apps from Microsoft Store, both official and third-party ones). Even a Photo Viewer must be enabled manually;
OneDrive;
Virtual assistant Cortana;
Windows Ink Workspace, a digital pen;
There is no hardware support for VP9/HEVC ( used on YouTube, encrypted video streams – Netflix, Amazon Video, etc.).
…

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Charlie

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Microsoft actually provide the tools as standard to remove CrApps and such like. I have W10 21H1 Pro with no chrEdge and the only thing resident which I would not remove is the MS Store which is disabled in GP. Then there’s collected rulesets using a 3rd party firewall, I could go on and on with other 3rd party PORTABLE stuff too but, surprisingly not that many are required. System integrity is good, stable and it only cost this geek research time, trial and error. PKCano has a writeup on some of those methods over here on this very site!

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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PKCano

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Dear God I used windows 11 for the first time today and it just plain sucks. There is no getting around it, microsoft has rolled out another VISTA. gone are all of the things I use such as dragging icons to the task bar, moving the task bar to the right side of the screen,and on and on. I will be sticking with windows 10 until it dies and then I will, as bad as I didn’t want to, move to Linux.

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Fred, Charlie, Cybertooth

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From the TV commercials I’ve seen for Win 11 it appears to be mainly a gaming machine.  Might as well just buy an Xbox.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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I started using a Mac as my main work computer in June of 2017, progressively sidelining my Windows PC after two decades of using Windows as the one and only OS — for the reasons that I have explained, along with several others, further up in this thread. This Mac is a mid-2015 laptop model that was last made and sold in July 2018. Consequently, by July 2023 this Mac is going to run out of hardware support from Apple, but still should get security updates for another two years. Mine is a laptop with an Intel CISC CPU; by 2023 the new generation of Macs with customized AMD RISC CPUs is likely to have reached sufficient maturity both in hardware and software to be safe to buy a new one of these and keep the old Intel Mac as backup and for running applications that no longer get updates for the by then old Intel Macs.

Being quite satisfied with this Mac, I am planning to buy a new one in another two or three years. It is not going to be cheap, but it is also likely to be a one-time big expense (so far the only significant expense I have had the need to make to be able to use my Mac, as well as my three previous Windows PCs running 98, XP and 7, was when buying it), an expense that will get amortized, so to speak, over another seven or eight years of service. And in 2023 I expect to still be able to afford a new Mac, even a top-of-the-line one with the fastest hardware and the biggest screen available, well enough not to have to worry about the price.

In any case, my philosophy, for many years by now, has been that buying one’s freedom from some of the troubles and frustrations of life is what money is really for. So far, I have only had repeated confirmation that this is a correct way of thinking.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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“ is what money is really for”

Well … one of the main things it is for, because there are others. Such as not to starve or die of exposure on the street. Or to educate one’s children, take care of sick relatives, pay rent or mortgage … One could consider those also as troubles and frustrations, but they can also be seen more like absolute necessities.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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<p style=”text-align: left;”>

OscarCP wrote:

“ is what money is really for”

Well … one of the main things it is for, because there are others. Such as not to starve or die of exposure on the street. Or to educate one’s children, take care of sick relatives, pay rent or mortgage … One could consider those also as troubles and frustrations, but they can also be seen more like absolute necessities.

How does this end, in buying not a new pc, and repairing the old one?</p>

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Macs are mutating from Intel CPU Macs to ARM CPU Macs and there is limited back compatibility, particularly in software, of the new ones with the older ones. The developers of applications probably will start to support less and less the versions for the Intel machines and concentrate in those for the newer ARM ones.

So it is a question of how best to move with the times, not one of fixing old Macs so they become up-to-date, as doing that is probably going to be much more complicated and expensive than buying the new ones, so for those of us who can afford it, getting the new machines is the best strategy. But there is no need to hurry and start to follow it much sooner than a few years from now.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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